RHODESIAN RESIDENTS: PATRIALITY RULES (Hansard, 17 May 1976)

§ Lord REIGATE
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)
My Lords, the exceptions are those persons who fall to be dealt with under the terms of Mr. George Thomson's Statement in another place on 27th June 1968.

§ Lord REIGATE
My Lords, first, is the noble Lord aware that my Question was tabled before the Minister for Sport took the rather curious action that he did last week? Secondly, rather than relying on Mr. Thomson's Statement, would he agree that Section 13 of the 1968 order is so imprecise as to give no guidance to residents of Rhodesia who may wish to come to this country but who are uncertain as to where they stand?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I do not think that there should be any misunderstanding on the part of any Rhodesian who wishes to come to this country, except of course in relation to the exceptional terms which Mr. Thomson's Statement makes very clear, as does the order that flowed from it. However, I take note of the noble Lord's point about that section of the order being imprecise. I will have a good look at it.

§ Lord AVEBURY
My Lords, is the Minister aware that most of us warmly support the action taken by Mr. Denis Howell, in accordance with the policy of both Governments since the unilateral declaration of independence, in preventing the Rhodesian cricket team from coming to this country? Would the Minister agree that, if such a team were facilitated to come here to play these matches in Great Britain, it would seriously damage the relationships between this country and our partners in the Commonwealth?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, the latter part of the noble Lord's supplementary question sums up the probable effects of our deviating in cases of this kind not only from the policies of our predecessors in office in this country but also from almost every country whose policies in similar situations I have been able to check.

§ Baroness ELLES
My Lords, from this side of the House may I say that I do not think we should necessarily agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, has said. I shall certainly put a question, but I had to clarify the point that, as I understand it, the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, was not speaking for all those in this House, as he implied. Perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Goronwy-Roberts, could tell us what kind of distinction is made between Rhodesians who come to this country, and whether it is true that, when Mrs. Hart, a former Minister for Overseas Development, was in office, certain students came from Rhodesia—quite rightly—to study in this country? I am sure all sides of the House supported that. What distinction does the Foreign Office make as to whether students come in from Rhodesia with the blessing of the Government or whether other perfectly innocent Rhodesians also wish to come into this country?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, there is no distinction between students and others who come to this country for proper reasons and what the noble Baroness has described as "other innocent Rhodesians". The distinction is between those who are innocent and those who are not.

§ Baroness ELLES
My Lords, would the noble Lord therefore say that a black is 1161 necessarily innocent and a white is not? We on this side of the House are not at all racist; but, nevertheless, this seems to be the implication in the noble Lord's answer. Would he say that playing cricket is any less innocent that studying?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I would no more say that black is necessarily innocent and white is not than I would say that white is necessarily innocent and black is necessarily not. As to cricket, my own record in that field—limited as it has been—speaks for itself.

§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONE
My Lords, supposing an individual wants to come to this country and is in doubt into which category he falls, may I ask whether there is any means by which he can find out? If so, what is it?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
Yes, indeed, my Lords; if he wishes to renew his passport or take out a passport he is, of course, in touch with our consular officials who know these regulations. Since 1968, as we and our predecessors in office have found, the details of this categorisation, these exceptions, have been widely known in Rhodesia, as they are in this country.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, has my noble friend noted that the refusal of the Minister for Sport to permit a number of Rhodesians to come to the United Kingdom to play cricket as a team was not contained in the original Question? But, since it has been raised, is it not surprising that an important issue of this kind has not been the subject of a Statement made in your Lordships' House? Regarding the remarks by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury—that is, that most people will agree with the decision of the Minister for Sport—it appears that it was not a decision taken by the Government. It is not agreeable to each of us and I regard his decision as damned silly.

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, the noble Lord is entitled to his opinion on this as on every other question. As to whether this matter should be the subject of a special Statement, I am beginning to think that, after five or six minutes, it has been the subject of a special 1162 Statement. Of course, there is no inhibition on any Member of either House from putting down a Question or asking for a Statement. In my experience, Ministers are always ready to agree to do their best, very much as my noble friend, who was such a distinguished member of previous Administrations, was himself ready to make a Statement whenever he was asked.

§ Lord REIGATE
My Lords, does the noble Lord recall that at the time of UDI Her Majesty's Government in this country appealed to many in Rhodesia to stay there and carry on? What is the position of those people?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I think their position is in accordance with what has been said from this Dispatch Box, certainly by me, and by my right honourable and honourable friends. We strongly urge European members of the Rhodesian community to stay and do two things in that country: to work for the rapid transition to majority rule, and thereafter to take part in the affairs of that country.

§ Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYE
My Lords, would the Minister be kind enough to clear up one point for me? I understand that the Minister for Sport said that as individuals the team were welcome to come here. Supposing that a certain number of individuals are here and then are wicked enough to get together and start playing cricket, will the Government take action against them and expel them from the country?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, indeed not. Certainly no Government of which I am a member will take action against anybody for playing cricket; but I hope that any Government of which I am a member will take action against people who try to use the noble game of cricket to uphold the spurious representative and constitutional character of an illegal regime in rebellion against the Queen.