§ 3.1 p.m.
§ Baroness MASHAM of ILTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will ensure that public lavatories in health centres are suitable for disabled people.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the provision in health centres of at least one lavatory suitable for elderly, disabled and wheelchair patients of either sex was expressly recommended in a draft design guide on health centres distributed to health authorities and other bodies in 1974.
§ Baroness MASHAM of ILTONMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that much more encouraging reply. Is he aware that as a member of a community health council in my district, I have not yet found one health centre or one health clinic where this facility applies? Can the Government encourage existing centres to make this facility available? Is the noble Lord aware that it would be better if the door to the lavatory were made to slide rather than open inwards?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am grateful for what the noble Baroness has said. There are approximately 600 health centres in England and I can assure the House that officials of my Department have visited almost all of them and have not yet found a health centre which does not provide a lavatory for elderly, disabled or wheelchair patients. If the noble Baroness has information on specific health centres we should be very glad to have details. As I say, we have visited most of the 600 or so health centres, which is quite an undertaking. With regard to the point concerning the sliding door, the leading architectural authority on design for the disabled, Selwyn Goldsmith, advises against the sliding door because very few people who use a wheelchair have sufficient strength, or are at the correct level, to be able to move the door right back. We understand that it is preferable that the door should open so that there is a direct passage in, and 537 it is much easier from the point of view of the disabled person to have that type of door.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, I wish to thank the noble Lord for the action which has been taken. Would it not be helpful if the names of those authorities which have taken action as a result of the guidance given were published? This would make people aware that there are some local authorities who are still not taking action. It is a very good idea to congratulate the people who take action. I think the noble Lord will agree that this matter involves a different psychology. The more that people follow the guidance, when it is reasonable, and the more that those people are known to the public, then the more likely it will be that the advice will be accepted by everyone.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, it causes some surprise that it is claimed that there appears to be a widescale disregard of the guidance, bearing in mind that officials have visited almost all of the 600 health centres and have not found one without proper facilities. The noble Baroness speaks about local authorities, but we are concerned with lavatories in health centres, and we are under the impression, as a result of personal visitation, that this need is being met.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEI apologise, my Lords, for not saying "health centres". There are so many names for everything that sometimes one becomes a little mixed up.