§ 2.43 p.m.
§ Lord BROWNMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in the light of the award to an Edinburgh University anthropologist of £6,000 to do research on "Selection of spouses in a specific population of Muslims in Delhi" and a second award to a Hull theologian to do research on "Interaction of Scientific and Religious beliefs of Thai scientists", they are satisfied that the Social Science Research Council is spending public money wisely.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, NORTHERN IRELAND OFFICE (Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge)My Lords, my noble friend's Question is in line with the tradition of poking fun at the various topics chosen for examination by social anthropologists, and indeed at social anthropology itself in my day, I remember that Lady Fraser's Leaves from the Golden Bough was a prime target. But I think the tendency culminated in Robert Benchley's immortal lecture on, "The Sex Life of the Polyp". In spite of this friendly ridicule, the subject of social anthropology has grown in stature and importance as a proper field of scientific research and a respectable discipline for university study, in which a number of British research workers have gained international distinction. I cannot believe that my noble friend is suggesting Government interference in the allocation of research funds by the Social Science Research Council. The Council consists mainly of highly distinguished academics, some of whom are scientists of international repute, and its allocation of about 2 per cent. of its total funds to this subject could hardly be criticised. If my noble friend wishes to discuss the value of any particular project selected for research, I suggest he applies to the Council itself, whom he will find well capable of defending its decisions.
§ Lord BROWNMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, 538 I am disappointed that he has cast an aura of respectability over these two awards. In the light of awards of this kind, and there are others as well, may I ask my noble friend whether he is prepared to recommend to the Secretary of State that he should consider the composition of the Social Science Research Council, over which I assume he exercises control, in order that a greater measure of wisdom may infect their decisions in future?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGEMy Lords, I can say without hesitation that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State who has made these appointments is well satisfied with them.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether there is a periodic review of the way that the Social Science Research Council spends money so that the tax-payer may feel that his money is being wisely used?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGEMy Lords, there is a body known as the Advisory Board of the Research Councils which fulfils this role.
§ Lord ANNANMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he saw on television last night a programme called "Horizon" which paid tribute to the work of the great American anthropologist, Dr. Margaret Mead, whose researches years ago in Melanesia profoundly affected the view in our society of both family life and racial minorities and whether he would agree that we should understand that researches of this kind can affect our own decisions about our way of life? Having noted that point, would the noble Lord also agree that the principle enunciated by Lord Rothschild in his Report on Scientific Research—namely, the customer-contractor principle—might with advantage be brought to the attention of both the Science Research Council and the Social Science Research Council, although it is more difficult for them to apply this principle than the Medical Research Council and the Agricultural Research Council?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEMy Lords, as regards the first part of my noble friend's intervention, of course I agree. I think that social anthropology is a branch of 539 science that is of the greatest importance. It happens to be rather easy to make fun of. Regarding the Rothschild principle, it is very difficult to apply it without a clear identification of the customer but I will put this matter to my right honourable friend and find out whether he thinks that he can identify the customer.
§ Lord WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that the Rothschild principle was supposed to apply to contract research between Departments and universities, not the Research Councils? Would my noble friend also reassure the House that the Government have no intention of interfering with the freedom of the Research Councils?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEMy Lords, I hasten to give reassurance on the second point. There is no intention whatever of interfering in this way and it is entirely wrong to suggest that there should be interference. As regards the Rothschild principle, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Annan, was using it as an analogy rather than as an exact parallel.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, when the anthropologists have concluded their investigation into the selection of spouses in Delhi, may I ask my noble friend whether the Government will undertake a similar piece of research into the selection of spouses in Britain?—without, of course, any retroactive effect.
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEMy Lords, I think that the appropriate direction in which to launch this appeal would be through the Social Science Research Council.
§ Baroness GAITSKELLMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for his Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Brown, it is out of character in terms of its pomposity regarding the Social Science Research Council. May I say—
§ Baroness GAITSKELLI beg your Lordships' pardon. May I ask my noble friend whether or not it would be much better to look at more serious questions such as racial prejudice, which is on our doorstep, and racial strife in the international field?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGEMy Lords, my noble friend Lord Brown referred to two projects. Each year there are approximately 20 projects and I do not think that one wants to feel that the approach is limited in any way.
§ Lord BROWNMy Lords, would my noble friend take it from me—
§ Lord BROWNMy Lords, does my noble friend understand that my Question is not a general attack on the field of anthropological research? Secondly, would he agree that there are limits to the type of research that can be sponsored by public money and that the two researches which excited this Question are over the limit? Does his Answer imply that there are no limits to the kind of researches which can be financed by the SSRC the exceeding of which will attract Her Majesty's Government's attention to the composition of the SSRC itself?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGEMy Lords, this is the same question over again. The members of the SSRC are appointed by the Secretary of State and they are given complete freedom in the allocation of its funds. As I said before, there is a body called the Advisory Board of the Research Councils, whose business it is to supervise the spread of money between the different Research Councils; that is as far as the situation goes at the moment.