MEMBERS' PENSIONS (NORTHERN IRELAND) ORDER 1976 (Hansard, 9 March 1976)

§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGE
My Lords, I beg to move, That the Members' Pensions (Northern Ireland) Order 1976, a draft of which was laid before this House on 25th February 1976, be approved. The purpose of the order is to make improvements in the contributory pension scheme for former Members of the Northern Ireland House of Commons which is provided for in the Ministerial Salaries and Members' Pensions Act (Northern Ireland) 1965. The Northern Ireland scheme of 1965 is similar to that which applied to Members of another place until 1972 under the provisions of Part II of the Ministerial Salaries and Members' Pensions Act 1965. The Parliamentary and Other Pensions Act 1972 gave Members of the other place more favourable conditions. Parallel action in Northern Ireland was not taken at the time of the Westminster Act in view of the constitutional uncertainties which culminated in the abolition of the Parliament of Northern Ireland.
It is now proposed that the pension scheme for former Members of the Parliament of Northern Ireland should be improved, in certain respects, in line with the scheme for Members of the other place, for persons ceasing to be Members after 1st January 1972, which was the effective date of the corresponding improvements introduced under the 1972 Act. This order will give effect to these proposals by amending the Ministerial Salaries and Members' Pensions Act (Northern Ireland) 1965.
Article 1 of the order provides that it shall come into operation on the seventh day after it is made and Article 2 applies 1232 the Interpretation Act (Northern Ireland) 1954 to it. Under Section 5 of the Act of 1965, certain fixed sums were paid annually into the Members' Contributory Pensions (Northern Ireland) Fund from moneys provided by Parliament. Article 3(1) of the order provides instead, in line with Section 5 of the Westminster Act of 1972, for the annual payment into the Fund, out of moneys appropriated by measure, of an amount recommended by an actuary. As a consequence of this, and because there will be no further Members' contributions from salary, Article 3(2) provides for the repeal of certain provisions of the Act of 1965.
Article 4 reduces the qualifying period for pension from 10 years' to four years' reckonable service. This change will give entitlement to pensions at age 65 to a number of former Members who did not become Members of the Assembly. Article 5 gives former Members the right to elect to receive an actuarially reduced pension at the age of 60 instead of waiting until the age of 65. And Article 6 precludes the payment of a pension during any period when the person concerned was a Member of the Assembly, or a Member of the Convention, or a candidate for election to either of them.
Finally Article 7 gives former Members who have not or will not become entitled to a Member's pension, the right to receive a refund of contributions immediately, if they so choose, instead of having to wait for varying periods as provided in section 10(1)(b) of the 1965 Act. The proposals contained in this order for the Northern Ireland scheme are in line with provisions of the 1972 Act. I commend the order to the House. My Lords, I beg to move.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, I should not consider it appropriate to object to the provisions of this order, but in reducing the period of reckonable service from 10 to four years in the case of former Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly while at the same time ignoring the position of former Members of another place who retired before the 1965 pensions legislation was introduced and 1233 carried through both Houses (although I am not certain that it came through your Lordships' House) it occurs to me that this might have been the appropriate occasion for a review of the whole of the pensions scheme. Let me explain.
There are several Members of your Lordships' House—and I am not among them—who retired before the 1965 scheme. Some of them—I need hardly be called upon to mention names but they are on both sides of your Lordships'House—who had 10 years' service before 1965, some of them 15, some of them 20 years' and some of them even longer were deprived of the benefit of the pension scheme because it was initiated only in 1965. The result is that in some of the cases which come to mind they are the recipients of a pension which has nothing to do with the ordinary pension scheme of 1965 but is based on the Members' fund, which was contributed to by annual subscriptions of £24 and as a result they benefited from that fund.
It seems to me that if the period of reckonable service in the case of Northern Ireland Members who retired after 1972 is to be reduced from 10 to four years, which in the circumstances is a desirable provision to which I raise no objection at all, the Government might have decided to take the opportunity of reviewing the pension scheme so that some of my former colleagues benefited. I need hardly declare an interest, except to mention that I have the benefit of the 10 years scheme, like other Members of another place who eventually retired, though I had 42½ years' service in another place —but that is an anomoly that one has to endure. Other Members of your Lordships' House are affected and it seems to me in the circumstances, since a revision of the pension scheme affecting former Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly is under review, it would have been as well to make a thorough going job of the whole position. That is all I wish to say about it, but I take advantage of the presence on the Front Bench of my noble friend who is responsible for this legislation in your Lorsdhips' House so that he may convey my observation to his right honourable friend.

§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGE
My Lord, I am grateful that my noble friend does not expect 1234 me to do more than that, which I will certainly do. But I might point out that this order is an attempt to put right something which was wrong in the sense that the Westminster Members of Parliament under the Westminster Act had this reduction from 10 to four years and it is bringing the Northern Ireland Members of Parliament into line with them; so it need not in any sense apply to the whole field. But my noble friend's views will be conveyed to the correct source in Government in order that they may be looked at.