Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether their attention has been drawn to reports in the Press of payments from local authority funds, arranged through certain educational welfare officers and social workers in the London area, to enable certain children, described as members of Young Socialist groups, to attend a weekend course at Parwich in Derbyshire to study "ways of smashing the capitalist system "; and whether they will arrange for a copy of the text of the lectures to be placed in the Library.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE, NORTHERN IRELAND OFFICE (Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge)My Lords, I have checked the Press reports referred to in the noble Lord's Question, and I regret to say that they are more or less accurate. A payment of £5 was made by the London Borough of Hackney Social Services Department to a16-year-old girl who is in their care, and two payments of £5 each were made from charitable funds administered by the Inner London Education Authority to a boy and girl both aged 14. These payments were agreed without knowledge of the political nature of the weekend's activities, and both of the authorities involved are taking steps to ensure that this does not happen again.
As regards the last sentence of the Question, this is a free country and people 1140 may give what lectures they like within the law. I have no intention of putting the text of any private lecture in the Library, even if I had it.
Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for the first part of that Answer, which was very full, may I ask whether he would agree that these lectures might be much more interesting than many of the papers which find their way into the Library? Further, would it not be reasonable of us to want to know who the lecturers were, and to see for ourselves how far their theme and the course they advocate accords with or differs from the policy of Her Majesty's Government?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEMy Lords, I am quite unable to decide what interests the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood. I have no intention whatever of going into this field of propaganda, either from one side or the other, and I think the House would favour the view of leaving the matter where it stands.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, bearing in mind the unexceptionable sentiments of the noble Lord, Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge, on both parts of his reply, may I ask what steps the Government are taking in view of the serious breaches of trust disclosed, either of public money or charitable money in the two cases, to see that it is paid back by those who are responsible for the breaches?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEMy Lords, no steps are being taken to retrieve the money. Steps have been taken to see that such a situation shall not occur again.
§ The Earl of LAUDERDALEMy Lords, since money to the extent of £15 has been spent from public funds on sending these children to be educated in this way, would not the noble Lord the Minister agree that we should get something back if these papers were put in the Library? Is it not for the benefit of your Lordships' House that we should be informed about this?—because ours is a free country, too.
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEMy Lords, an inexpensive stamp would obtain these papers just as easily.
§ The Earl of LAUDERDALEMy Lords, would the noble Lord the Minister give me the address, so that I can write —or perhaps the Library has the address?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGSBRIDGEMy Lords, I will give the address to the noble Earl, Lord Lauderdale, later.
§ Lord CHALFONTMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware of the activities of an organisation known as the Centre for Marxist Studies, established in Leeds in May 1975, to promote the spread of Marxist ideas in the Labour Movement and on the Left generally? Is he further aware that one of the aims of this organisation is to form provincial centres round this country? Would he say whether there is any truth in the report that has been published that the Centre for Marxist Studies was connected with the weekend mentioned in the Question of the noble Lord opposite?
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGEMy Lords, this is an entirely separate Question, and one of some interest.
§ Lord DONALDSON of KINGS-BRIDGEMy Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Chalfont, would put down a Question, I will answer it.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend the Minister—and there are no reds under my bed—whether it might not be more dangerous if these lecture papers were put in the Library of this House?—because some Members opposite might very well be corrupted!