HL Deb 03 March 1976 vol 368 cc1003-4

2.41 p.m.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what was the total cost, for the last convenient 12-month period, of the Civil Aviation Flying Unit at Stansted.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the Civil Aviation Flying Unit is owned and operated by the Civil Aviation Authority and the noble Lord's inquiry is therefore a matter for the Authority. I suggest that he should write to the chairman about it.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord the Minister for that reply, which I find a little disappointing. Is the noble Lord aware that the last annual report of the Authority did not reveal the cost of this Unit? Can he say what proportion of the cost of the Unit is incurred by the carriage of Government Ministers and other VIPs carried at Government expense? Can he say, further, whether the Government refund to the Authority the cost of travel.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, may I add to the point I made. I believe that an organisation such as the Civil Aviation Authority must be allowed to conduct its day-to-day operations without outside pressure. An inquiry is not pressure, and I am certain that the noble friend of the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, will oblige him with an answer.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that I do not agree with hissupposition? Can he answer the point in my supplementary question as to how far this facility is used for the carriage of Government Ministers, and others who are carried at Government expense?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the number of flights is small. The Unit provides flights to and from Strasbourg and Luxembourg about once a month for the carriage of British Members of the European Parliament.

The Earl of MANSFIELD

My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that Members of the European Parliament who travel in this ancient but enjoyable method of transport pay their own fares?

Lord DERWENT

My Lords, when the noble Lord the Minister says that no pressure is brought to bear on the Unit, can he say whether the Unit could refuse to take a Goverment Minister somewhere?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, old-fashioned courtesy would, I am certain, ensure that the Minister was carried.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, is it not the case that this facility is frequently used for the carriage of Ministers other than those travelling to and from Strasbourg, particularly Ministers who have a reluctance, for one reason or another, to use RAF facilities?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I have never met a Minister who is reluctant to be carried by the RAF.