§ Lord BRADWELLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will give instructions for the removal of the illegal racialist notice displayed by Mr. Robert Relf, of Leamington; and why this has not been done already.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Harris of Greenwich)My Lords, this is a matter for the courts. The Government have no powers to give such instructions.
§ Lord BRADWELLMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that it is unfortunate that some of the media have been building this man up into a kind of hero or patriot, when he is in fact nothing of the kind, having belonged to a number of explicitly pro-Nazi organisations, including a rather ineffective local branch of the Ku-Klux-Klan? In view of what my noble friend says, would it not be ordinary common sense for the police or some other authority to apply to the courts for an injunction to remove a notice which is at least as offensive to the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish as to any coloured immigrant?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, on the latter point raised by my noble friend, proceedings under the Race Relations Act 1968 are specifically restricted to the Board and can be brought only by them. On the first point, I take note of what my noble friend has said.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend this question, and may I put it in rather vulgar terms. Does he not think that it would be better if we all shut our mouths about this 570 business, and that it would be in the interests of good race relations if we did?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, as a former member of my noble friend's profession, I always hesitate before giving advice to the media, but I think most of us would probably take the view that Mr. Relf has now secured more than enough publicity.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, is it not a little late to do that? Has not the noble Lord observed that over the weekend a notice has gone up stating that a house is to be sold only to a black family? Will similar action be taken under the Race Relations Act and will we have a competitive hunger strike?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, this is a matter for the Race Relations Board. From what I saw in the Press this morning, the matter is already in the process of being referred to them, and no doubt they will take appropriate action.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is not this notice a little hard on the whites? While it would allow non-whites born in this country who are English to buy the house, Scots, Welsh and Irish from Ulster would be excluded from doing so.
§ Lord BRADWELLMy Lords, although this matter may seem to some of your Lordships merely a piece of harmless lunacy on the part of Mr. Relf, as the last survivor—which I believe I am—of the Parliamentary delegation, under the leadership of the noble Viscount, the late Lord Addison, which inspected Buchenwald camp in April 1945, may I ask my noble friend whether he agrees that the ultimate horrors of those camps started with apparently relatively trivial racialist propaganda of this kind?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHYes, my Lords: I do not think any of us would wish to underestimate the dangers involved in this entire situation. This is a matter which was touched on in the debate which took place on Thursday of last week on an Unstarred Question. May I say this. There are extremists, both from the Right and from the Left, who have a profound contempt for the rule of law and the standards of democratic society.
§ Lord MONSONMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree, as the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, effectively pointed out, that the word " English " describes a person's nationality and not his race? Would he further agree that under the Race Relations Act 1968 it is not an offence to discriminate on grounds of nationality alone? Could he, therefore, explain to the House how the Race Relations Board were able to institute these costly and counter-productive proceedings against Relf in the first place?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, the learned judge took a different view from that of the noble Lord.
§ Lord MONSONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that on 4th March the Home Secretary pointed out to the House of Commons, and conceded, that the Race Relations Act 1968 did not cover nationality as opposed to national origins.
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, with great respect to the noble Lord, there has been a decision in a court on this question, and that, so far as we are concerned, is the end of the matter.