§ 3.43 p.m.
§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Shepherd)My Lords, with the permission of the House I shall now repeat a Statement that is being made in another place by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister about his talks with the 442 President of the French Republic. My right honourable friend's words are as follows:
" President Giscard d'Estaing's State Visit to the United Kingdom marks the opening of a new and hopeful chapter in the long history of Anglo/French relations. All of us who had the pleasure of hearing the President's address from the Royal Gallery yesterday welcomed the positive and constructive spirit in which he spoke of the relationship between our two countries. I am happy to say that a similar spirit of friendship, candour and constructiveness has marked our official talks. Both of us welcomed the opportunity to deepen the understanding between our two Governments and countries, and all our discussions were conducted in this spirit.
" In the course of both our private talks and the official sessions, we were able to touch on most of the principal subjects of joint interest and concern to our two Governments. In particular, as partners in the European Community, we had a full discussion on Community matters, including the question of direct elections to the European Assembly, on which both sides were able to explain their concerns. We also discussed the Common Fishery Policy, on which my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary and I explained to the President the critical importance we attach to the forthcoming negotiations.
" On the Tindemans Report, and the future of Europe generally, we had a useful exchange of ideas, and achieved a much clearer recognition of how much common ground there is between us.
" Finally, and perhaps of greatest significance for preventing future misunderstandings, we reached agreement on the need for closer and more systematic contacts between our two Governments. The President and I have decided to meet once a year, accompanied by Ministerial colleagues as appropriate, in order to discuss relations between our two countries and, in particular, the problems of common interest deriving from our 443 membership of the European Economic Community. The first meeting will be held in Paris before the end of this year. We have decided that there should he a similar annual meeting between the Ministers responsible for foreign affairs; and that there should be periodic meetings between the other principal Ministers, notably those responsible for home affairs, the economy and finance, energy, industry, defence and trade. The text of the Joint Declaration embodying this decision sill he printed in the Official Report.
" France should know that we welcome unreservedly this new arrangement and will play our full part in raising our relationship to a new high level. I hope that other nations of Europe will see it as a contribution to the cohesion of the European Community, and thus as being of benefit to Europe as a whole."
My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
The Joint Declaration is as follows:
" The President of the French Republic and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
" Considering that their two countries share the same basic outlook and pursue common objectives;
" Recalling that their two countries' membership of the same European Community creates new links between them;
" Resolved to develop consultation and thereby to reinforce co-operation between their two Governments;
" Have decided to meet alternately in France and in the United Kingdom, once a year, accompanied by the members of their Governments principally concerned, in order to discuss relations between their two countries and problems of common interest, notably those derived from their membership of the European Economic Community;
" Have also decided that the Ministers of Foreign Affairs of France and the United Kingdom will have a separate meeting at least once a year;
" Have decided to organise periodic meetings between the other principal Ministers, notably those responsible for Home Affairs, the Economy and Finance, Energy, Industry, Defence and Trade, with a view to bringing the policies of their two countries closer together and facilitating their convergence."
§ Lord CARRINGTONMy Lords, in the past two years one has had to listen to so many Statements from the Front Bench opposite of either a disastrous or 444 a disagreeable kind to those of us on these Benches that it is a particular pleasure to welcome this Statement this afternoon, with every word of which everybody in this House would agree. There cannot be anybody who would not welcome the closer understanding between Britain and France and the disappearance of the misunderstandings of the past few years. One will particularly welcome the proposal that the Prime Minister. the Heads of Government and other Ministers should meet at regular intervals. I might say in passing that when I was Secretary of State for Defence for four years I met my French opposite number every six months, and defence was not a topic on which we were always agreed. I think that those meetings were very useful and I am only sorry that they were not carried on by my successor. But certainly I think that this an admirable idea.
I should like to pay my tribute to the Prime Minister for the tone with which he has approached these talks. Perhaps I might also be allowed to pay my tribute to President Giscard d'Estaing. No one who heard his speech yesterday in the Royal Gallery will forget it, nor will they forget the spirit with which he approached his visit to this country, the elegance and forthrightness of what he said and perhaps above all, the generosity he showed.
§ Lord BYERSMy Lords, from these Benches I should like to endorse not only the Statement but also everything which the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, has just said. In particular I should like to be associated with the tribute he paid to the Prime Minister. I think that this has been an extremely happy visit. All of us who heard the President in the past few days have been impressed with the constructive approach which he has adopted, an approach which has turned this visit into something much more important than the normal State Visit of a Head of State. In particular, we were impressed by the President's statement that the winds of change were blowing France and Britain together rather than apart. We especially welcome the proposal for more regular consultation and the establishment of a much closer relationship between France and Britain, and a relationship which will exist within the Economic Community.
§ Lord SHEPHERDMy Lords, I am grateful to the two noble Lords for their response to the Statement. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, that in any union there has to be a willingness, and those who take part in the union should clearly enter into it with a knowledge of what they are entering into and with a full heart. Until last year, in terms of the European Economic Community it could not have been claimed that one could say that of this country. Certainly the two major political Parties were themselves torn on this very matter. But I believe that the decision that was taken by the people of this country, through the ballot box, has removed beyond any doubt the question of where the British people feel that their future interests lie. I should also like to say to the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, that I think that the French President himself appreciated this. I believe that the fact that we have now, through the ballot box, said where we wish to be and clearly stated our intention to co-operate, has done much to make this very important meeting between the French President and the British Prime Minister so successful.
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, about the speech that was made by the French President yesterday. It certainly was elegant. It had its generosity; but generosity is necessary between two countries whose interests have clashed for centuries. But I think it had, too, a sense of understanding, not only of previous positions, but that we now wish to play a full part within the European Economic Community, and that we also see that it would be of benefit to that understanding within Europe if Paris and London were brought closer together. I believe that the visit of the French President and his very gracious wife to this country is a landmark in our relationship with Europe and I think that that is quite clear and has been fully recognised by the French President in all his utterances in this country during the last two days.
§ Lord HANKEYMy Lords, are the Government aware that a very great number of people in this country will welcome what the Government have said and what the noble Lord the Leader of the House has said today in his very valuable remarks? May we take it that 446 this meeting with its valuable results will be the prelude to closer understanding with Germany and the rest of the Nine and to making positive progress towards working out in practical terms the idea of the European Economic Community?
§ Lord SHEPHERDMy Lords, I am grateful for what the noble Lord has said: It is of very great importance. Of course, the House will be aware that under the formal treaty between West Germany and France there are these two formal meetings each year. I do not believe that the French Government see this new arrangement which will appear in the joint declaration as in any way seeking to put British, French and German relations in a superior position in terms of the European Community interest. It is not to be seen as an emerging directorate. We are three of the larger industrial countries and there is a great deal to be said for these more systematic bilateral talks; but I can only repeat the concluding remarks of the Statement:
I hope that other nations of Europe will see it as a contribution to the cohesion of the European Community, and thus as being of benefit to Europe as a whole.That is the spirit in which we certainly and, I believe, the French see this new arrangement.