§ 2.50 p.m.
§ Lord SOMERSMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are going to forbid the use of strychnine in the killing of moles, and, if so, when.
§ Lord STRABOLGINo, my Lords; not until the Government are satisfied that there is some alternative and viable method of mole control which would not put other species of wildlife at risk.
§ Lord SOMERSMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, I wonder whether he could tell me what is the extent of the damage to agriculture by moles, in terms of money?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, mole damage reduces the productivity of agricultural grasslands and may damage machinery. There is also some damage to arable crops.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, could the noble Lord tell 298 us what kind of casualties occur when dogs pick up moles which have been poisoned by strychnine? It is a terribly cruel poison.
§ Lord STRABOLGII agree, my Lords: but one of the advantages of strychnine is that there is much less risk to other forms of animal life because it is put down in the mole run.
§ Lord BALERNOMy Lords, are the Government aware that the fertility of grassland is greatly enhanced by worms, and that a large number of worms are found in the best grassland in this country? These discoveries were made in New Zealand. Is he aware that moles are death to worms ?
§ The Earl of CRANBROOKMy Lords, without wanting to enter into the controversy about the harm which moles do to agriculture, which any of us who have any knowledge of agriculture know is minimal, may I ask whether the noble Lord is aware that this very painful poison is used in private gardens, on golf courses, in playing fields, to destroy moles, and there is no commercial reason for allowing that? There are traps which any one of us who lives in the country will show him how to make and how to use. Is the noble Lord aware that he has power under Section 2 of the Act to forbid strychnine to be used to kill moles on any land other than the beautiful and fertile grassland which the noble Lord, Lord Balerno, apparently has, and which is damaged. Everywhere else it can be prevented under the Act.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I agree with much of what the noble Earl has said. Trapping, of course, can be a suitable method of control where infestation is light; but it is not an economic method of coping with heavy mole infestations.
§ The Earl of CRANBROOKMy Lords, does the noble Lord consider it justifiable to use this poison in private gardens, playing fields, golf courses, and other places where there is no commercial reason for destroying moles?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, Government research over a period of more than 10 years has not brought to light 299 any adequate alternative to the use of strychnine for the control of moles.
§ The Earl of CRANBROOKMy Lords, I asked whether the noble Lord thinks it is justifiable.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I am afraid that we must accept that some degree of suffering is an inescapable concomitant to the use of poison against pests.
§ The Earl of CRANBROOKMy Lords, the noble Lord has not yet answered my question. I asked him whether or not it is legitimate to use strychnine in private gardens and places where there is no commercial reason, the use of which he can stop.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, all I can say is that it is used where it is justified. The sale of strychnine, of course, is subject to the control of the Poisons Act.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether this very dangerous poison has been proved lethal to animals or man?
§ Lord STRABOLGIYes, my Lords, of course; that is why a member of the public can purchase strychnine only from a registered pharmacist and must be in possession of a permit.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, of course I understand that. I have often given prescriptions for strychnine. What I am asking my noble friend is whether there is evidence of strychnine having been used in this way and animals or human beings being poisoned ?
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, all I can say is that use of strychnine against any other species is illegal.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, could I ask my noble friend to answer that question seriously. I wanted to know whether there is evidence that deaths have occurred.
§ Lord STRABOLGIMy Lords, I would need notice of that question.