HL Deb 14 June 1976 vol 371 cc915-9

2.40 p.m.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many students from the new Commonwealth have been admitted in each of the last 10 years and what percentage of these in each year have returned to help their countries of birth; and whether the Government are satisfied that as in other Western countries they have an adequate organisation to monitor this matter.

The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Harris of Greenwich)

My Lords, with the leave of the House I will circulate in the Official Report a table showing the numbers of citizens of new Commonwealth countries admitted to the United Kingdom as students in each of the years 1966 to 1975. Information is not available about the eventual destinations or intentions of students from overseas who leave the United Kingdom after their period of study. Each individual case is checked to ensure that departure has taken place when required. I am satisfied that this is necessary and sufficient for the purpose of immigration control. It would be unneessary, even if it were feasible, to attempt to ascertain to which countries overseas students embarking from the United Kingdom eventually go.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that information, may I ask him whether he could give us a broad indication that a large percentage of these students, on completion of their course, do go out of this country again, albeit sometimes not to the country from which they came'? That, I think, is a matter which is causing some anxiety in this country. Further, is there any truth in the suggestion, or would the noble Lord be able to deny, that there is a measure of illegal immigration in this area? Because, if that was so, it would be disastrous to the general philosophy of helping students from these countries, and, again after we have helped educate the students here, trying to help the countries from which they come.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, the immigration rules require that any would-he student from the Commonwealth has to produce evidence of acceptance for a course of study at a bona fide educational institution before he is allowed to enter the country, so I think that to some extent that is a guarantee. So far as the second aspect of the question is concerned, there is obviously always a risk of overstaying: hut, when overstaying is discovered and a person declines to leave, there is a deportation procedure. and this is used.

The Earl of SELKIRK

My Lords. when the noble Lord circulates the figures, could he also give a fair estimate of the number of Commonwealth students currently studying in this country?

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I will gladly do so on a subsequent occasion; but I am not sure that I can obtain this information in the time scale necessary for its inclusion in today's Hansard. Certainly, I will try to make some estimate of that sort and if a Question can be put down I will ensure that it will be answered.

Earl FERRERS

My Lords, am I to understand from the noble Lord's original reply that when students have come here and have served their training period, there is a check on them to see whether they have returned or left the country?

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, there is a check every 12 months so far as any student in this country is concerned. Anyone who qualifies to enter as a student is admitted with a time limit of only 12 months. That is renewed on the assumption that there is evidence that they have been continuing their course of study.

Lord DRUMALBYN

My Lords, will the figures that the noble Lord is going to circulate distinguish between postgraduates and students following graduate courses or courses of technology?

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I am afraid that that would require a separate Question.

Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, can the noble Lord say in how many countries in the new Commonwealth Government students are tied, as in Malaysia, for five years to work for the Government after their studies in this country?

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, with respect, that raises a different matter. If a Question is put down I will ensure that it will be answered.

Lord WYNNE-JONES

My Lords. would my noble friend agree that the majority of students from the new Commonwealth come here as postgraduate students and, furthermore, that when they have qualified in this country and have received excellent (I hope) training, they often find it difficult to obtain suitable employment in their own countries?

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

Sometimes, my Lords, regrettably, that may be true.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that no system is perfect? Could he give the House some indication of how many students are " lost " during the process between when they arrive, here and when they go out of the country?

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, this raises a slightly different area of questioning. I shall certainly try to find out what is the answer. I am not quite sure that I will he able to give any precise figures: nevertheless, I will do my best.

Lord SLATER

My Lords, do I take it, arising from the Question put by the noble Lord, Lord Orr-Ewing, that what he is seeking to get to know is whether there is an embargo on overseas students coming into this country, receiving the benefit of the type of education meted out to them, who do not in the first place make their return visit back to their own land, the land from which they originated before coming here? If such is not the case, what power have we, as a Government who are able to give them this formal classification in regard to that of studentship along with our students in this country, to force them to do so?

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords. I am afraid that on this occasion, I part company with my noble friend. I do not think it is at all appropriate for this country to direct labour to another specific country. That is not the purpose of immigration control.

Lord SLATER

My Lords, I think that my noble friend is taking the question wrongly. He had better examine what I had to say in Hansard. It was not my purpose or object in seeking to do what he has already referred to in what I really did say.

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I will gladly look at Hansard. It appeared to me that my noble friend was suggesting that a person should be required to go to a specific country after he has completed a course at a British university. I am saying that that is not appropriate.

Lord HARVEY of PRESTBURY

My Lords, will the noble Lord state, in the information he is giving in Hansard tomorrow, those sponsored by Commonwealth countries for the armed forces as students or cadets or whatever?

Lord HARRIS of GREENWICH

My Lords, I will see what can be done; but in the limited amount of time it may require a separate Question.

Following is the table referred to:
CITIZENS OF NEW COMMONWEALTH COUNTRIES ADMITTED TO THE UNITED KINGDOM AS STUDENTS
Year Number of Students
1966* … … … … 12,407
1967* … … … … 9,545
1968* … … … … 11,559
1969* … … … … 12,879
1970* … … … … 14,928
1971* … … … … 16,237
1972* … … … … 17,540
1973* … … … … 22,727*
1974 … … … … 26,611
1975** … … … … 28,920**
* Pakistan included up to 31.8.73.
**Provisional figure.