§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will take steps to correct the misleading impression that one immigration voucher represents one immigrant whereas it may represent as many as four.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Harris of Greenwich)My Lords, there is no reason for any such impression to be current. We have often made clear, both in Parliament and elsewhere, that a special voucher covers the holder plus his family, if he has one.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, arising out of that reply, may I ask whether it is to be understood that the voucher carries permission for the entry of only four bodies? Or can it, as is widely believed and expressed in the Press, be for several people or, at any rate, for more than four people? May I also ask the noble Lord to indicate what measures have been taken to tighten up the granting of vouchers and passports overseas? In cases where it is within the knowledge of the police that individuals have come in illegally or have overstayed their permits, may I ask whether they are subject to rigorous deportation?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, in answer to the last point made by the noble Lord, the police devote a very substantial quantity of resources to dealing with illegal immigration. So far as the first two points are concerned, special vouchers are issued to heads of households, who may bring their dependants in with them. If a person has no family, the voucher may be for one person, but in other cases it will be for far more than one person. So far as the second part of the noble Lord's Question is concerned—that is, his request to the Government to tighten up so far as vouchers arc concerned—I must make it absolutely clear that the present Government accept, as did their predecessor, that they have a clear responsibility with regard to United Kingdom passport holders in East Africa. The Government have no intention of welshing on that commitment.
§ Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLSMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the general view was that a voucher meant one person? His present statement that one voucher can mean five, six or seven immigrants will add to the concern which people are feeling. Is the noble Lord aware that time is running out and that the real situation ought to he made quite clear and the arrangements for allowing immigrants to come in put into language that everyone can understand, so as to remove all ambiguity?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, I believe that the real position has been clear for a considerable period of time. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary made clear on 24th May 472 this year the position so far as voucher holders were concerned. My honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office did it on 17th May this year. I did it in this House on 10th February last year and my right honourable friend did it again on 6th February last year. With great respect to the noble Lord, I therefore suggest that the position has been wholly clear for a considerable period of time.
Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether, where a man's religion allows him to have up to four wives, all of whom have children, they would all he covered by one voucher?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, as I have indicated, the position has not changed in any way from the practice of the previous Government, so far as I am aware. So far as United Kingdom passport holders in East Africa are concerned, we accept a special responsibility. My right honourable friend's predecessor, with great political courage, stood by that responsibility in the face of very substantial pressure. He made himself unpopular and it was a great credit to him that he did not retreat in the face of that pressure. I repeat that the present Government have no intention of changing the arrangements so far as East African passport holders are concerned.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether we are to recognise polygamy in this country indefinitely?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, that takes the matter somewhat wider than the precise Question put down on the Order Paper. The arrangements which my noble friend referred to have been operating for some time. There are certainly significant difficulties which arise when people of different religions want to enter this country. There is a real problem here, and I do not try to pretend that there is not.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, would the noble Lord make clear—and I appreciate what he said about his predecessor under the Conservative Government—what is the 473 position of polygamous wives? Clearly, if they are passport holders on their own, they are passport holders in their own right; but what is the position of polygamous wives as polygamous wives? That is what we want to know.
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, I will gladly look into the matter. I suspect that it is exactly as it was when the noble and learned Lord was a member of a Cabinet which I believe to have pursued precisely the same policy. Nevertheless, he has raised a question and I will gladly look into it.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, if I may be permitted to ask a supplementary, I should like to know whether it is possible for a person who brings in a polygamous wife whom he took in his own country to take a further polygamous wife in this country?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, I feel that caution should be the order of the day at this stage. I shall gladly look into the point.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, is not this covered by the case of
… the Old Person of LymeWho married three wives at a time "?
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords: though I appreciate the fullness of the Minister's reply to my supplementary, since he referred to the administration for the granting of vouchers, may I ask whether it would not be worth considering transferring the consideration of sponsors for further immigration from overseas to this country?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, I take note of what the noble Lord has said, but I feel that I have—as I hope he will agree when he studies Hansard tomorrow—made the position of the Government quite clear.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, can the noble Lord say how many coloured people—and one has to use that word advisedly—will be eligible to enter this country as dependants of present voucher holders, as dependants of people who have come in already, and as United 474 Kingdom passport holders? Is the noble Lord not aware that, if the figure were known, we could plan for it?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, if the noble Lord will be good enough to put down a Question, I shall do my best to answer it.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, if the noble Lord is looking into this Question, will he further consider whether a polyandrous wife can bring several husbands to this country with her?