§ 2.40 p.m.
§ Lord KENNETMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, where a person who unknowingly receives a dose of heroin at a hospital as treatment for a heart attack, feels better, discharges himself and subsequently has a motor accident, that person or the doctor who treated him is responsible.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, a hospital cannot prevent a patient from taking his own discharge provided he signs to the effect that he has been warned of the consequences of doing so and advised not to leave.
§ Lord KENNETMy Lords, could the noble Lord possibly answer my Question? In the eventuality described in the Question, 1344 who is responsible in the sight of God, man and the law for the accident which may result from such an occasion?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, if a person has been advised that he ought not to leave the hospital but, nevertheless, decides to do so, the doctor then would have no responsibility for subsequent events.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, is it not the fact that responsibility in the eyes of God is not for the Government; responsibility under the law is for the courts of law, and not for the Government; and responsibility of man is a matter of opinion?
Baroness SUM M ERSKILLMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that the person was guilty on two counts: he not only discharged himself against the advice of the hospital, but also ignored the advice of the hospital which was almost certainly given to him, to see his own doctor who would have been given the names of the drugs which the man had been prescribed by the hospital?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLI am most grateful, my Lords, to my noble friend.
Lord WINSTANLEYMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that while heroin, like all powerful therapeutic substances, undoubtedly has its dangers, nevertheless it is still the drug of choice in a narrow range of conditions, and without it medicine would be deeply handicapped in dealing with certain cardiac and respiratory disorders? It does not do to be complacent about the dangers of drugs, but it does not help to carp excessively on some of the drawbacks and side effects.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that, drugs apart, a man who discharges himself following a heart attack and takes to the wheel of a car, is a grave danger to the public and is far better without a licence?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, we have to deal with the situation as to what happens when a person goes against the medical advice given to him and nevertheless decides to discharge himself. 1345 The only other comment I would want to make is this: it is unlikely that a patient, such as the one described in the Question, would not have had the effect of the drug explained to him even though perhaps the drug was not named.
§ Lord KENNETMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that we are straying very far from the point? Would the Government consider introducing legislation to allow hospital doctors to detain patients for a few hours in cases where they have administered drugs which rob those patients of their judgment?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the detention of a patient against his will raises very serious difficulties. This is a matter which has been considered on more than one occasion. I cannot hold out any hope that the Government will be prepared to introduce such legislation.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, would my noble friend further agree that any patient who was foolhardy enough to discharge himself from hospital without medical approval is merely inviting whatever consequences may result?
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, is my noble friend aware, regarding Lord Kennet's supplementary question, that he is asking for the patient to be denied his rights of free will?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLI am much obliged to my noble friend.
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, with the leave of the House, my noble friend Lord Goronwy-Roberts will now make a Statement on Uganda.