DROUGHT BILL [H.L.] (Hansard, 22 July 1976)

§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of the ENVIRONMENT(Baroness Birk)
My Lords, I understand that no Amendments have been set down to this Bill and that no noble Lord has indicated a wish to move a manuscript Amendment or to speak in Committee. Therefore, unless any noble Lord objects I beg to move that the Order of Commitment be discharged.

§ Lord WIGG
My Lords, I am a novice in these matters, but I should like to know what rights the House is forfeiting in agreeing to this Motion, because, while I have refrained from putting down Amendments—and I did this in deference to the request of the Minister in charge of the Bill—there are some things, I think, that ought to be said. I am quite prepared to waive this occasion and to do it on Third Reading, but by passing this Bill—and nobody begrudges the facilities given to the Government—we are in fact giving a blank cheque. The week after next, when it has become law, orders will have been laid; most of your Lordships will have departed with your buckets and spades for more salubrious climes—

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, I wonder whether my noble friend would give way. As I understand it, he is not objecting to this Motion, hut, if he is, then I must move that the House resolves itself into Committee. If he wants to raise these points on Third Reading, 1 wonder whether he would wait until we get to that stage.

§ Lord WIGG
I am very sorry, my Lords. I was being inarticulate, and I am a bit stupid, but I did not make myself quite clear. That is exactly what I was trying to say. I was prepared to waive any right I had on Committee stage. What I wanted to find out was what I was giving away by not raising it on Committee stage. If it is in order for me to make the point that I want to make on Third Reading, then I will resume my seat.

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, the only right that my noble friend is forfeiting is that if the House resolves into Committee, he could speak more than once on each of the points or clauses. If he speaks on Third Reading he can speak only once.

§ Lord WIGG
My Lords, that satisfies me. I am obliged to my noble friend. May I apologise to the House for taking up their time at this stage.

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a third time.

§ Lord WIGG
My Lords, I wish to offer one or two observations on the contents of the Bill. As I have already said, I do not regret for a moment having given the Government a blank cheque, but I think it not unimportant that we should recognise the nature and the contents of the cheque which may subquently be presented. Under Clause 1 of the Bill the Minister will be able to make orders and the orders made would affect those areas which are suffering from drought.

§ Lord DENHAM
My Lords, since it is difficult to hear will the noble Lord move towards the microphone?

§ Lord WIGG
My Lords, I beg the noble Lord's pardon. I would not want to deprive him of the wisdom conveyed in my remarks. The point that I have already made is that this House is being asked by its actions to give the Government a blank cheque. I do not in any way regret that being done but I think it necessary that we should understand what we are doing. The week after next this Bill will have become law; the Government will then make orders under Clause 1 and they will deal with those areas which are primarily affected—probably Northamptonshire, Southampton, South Wales; more than likely Wessex and perhaps South Yorkshire.
In those areas the water authorities will ask for powers; and only when they 954 ask for them can the Minister give them. The Minister is concerned only, and should be concerned only, so far as this Bill is concerned with the effects of drought, but there are other issues that arise. Let us assume for a moment that the worst happens and drought conditions continue into the autumn; that is to say, that the heat and lack of moisture continues. By Christmas we might be faced with a terrific crisis which the Government would then attempt to solve through the exercise of the powers contained in Clause 2. The Government are again in some difficulties; for if Clause 2 was invoked it could affect whole industries. The Government might be forced by circumstances to close down industries because water would be essential to others. This involves rough justice, and, let us be clear, it would be very rough justice indeed. No compensation would be payable. No compensation is payable either under Clause 1 for the very simple reason that while the Treasury could perhaps face up to the bill which might arise from action taken under Clause 1, it would break the Exchequer if they had to face the bill which may arise under Clause 2. Not paying compensation under Clause 2, they are not paying under Clause 1.
I do not dissent. What I ask is that the Minister consult perhaps the Prime Minister, but at any rate Ministers outside her own Department, against the possibility of the Clause 2 powers being invoked. For example, if I may deal with a subject dear to my heart, the question of racing, it is more than likely that some 19 racecourses which do not water might be required to stop racing in the immediate future not only because of the effect of the lack of moisture on the horses but because of the effect it might have on men if they fell from horses in those conditions. It seems to me not unreasonable that the Minister should go to the Minister for Sport or to the Home Secretary, who has not necessarily powers, but can use his influence to ask the Jockey Club and those concerned to draw up a scheme; so that those who are fortunate enough to race and get increased fixtures because of the cancellation of other fixtures, should put their hands into their pockets (and the Levy Board should put its hand into its pocket) to prevent the small courses—and they affect noble Lords all over the United Kingdom and 955 there are no fewer than 19 of them—from going broke. If these conditions arise, who knows how long they will continue?
My Lords, I mention racing because it is a sport—and, if noble Lords wish, it is a non-essential industry. But if Clause 2 powers are invoked, the need will arise for similar action—if the public purse is not to be used to do it—to save those men and industries from perhaps economic catastrophe. I should have thought that the Minister for Industry would have been brought in here so that if the worst happens—and we just do not know whether it will or not—those responsible would look at the situation which may arise. In other words, while we are all giving prayer—and I am all for a bit of prayer if it would help—there is no reason why we should not plan at the same time; and there should be planning against such a contingency.
May I remind noble Lords of the situation which faces us? There are records of moisture falling on these islands from about 1727. They are not exact records; but what we know through the work of the climatic research unit in East Anglia in examining the rings of old trees is that in the Middle Ages—certainly in the earlier part of the fifteenth century—there were conditions of the kind which we are now called upon to face. What has become clear is that the view that was held up to about 1960, that climate all over the world is constant, is probably not true. The records available from the earlier part of the eighteenth century to the present time were describing a picture which was not normal but abnormal.
In these circumstances I want to ask the Minister one specific question. I do not ask for an answer today—it is no trick question with easy answers. In the circumstances, as the climatic research unit at the University of East Anglia is the only institution of its kind in the world—and in this particular field once again men of our race are taking the lead—would it not be common sense for the Government to give that research unit their wholehearted support in order that we may ascertain the facts? I do not want to paint any alarmist picture, but I think it is clear that the situation in which we may find ourselves may continue in the short run. If it continues in the short 956 run the Government have my sympathy and my support in dealing with the situation which may arise under Clause 2 of the Bill.
On the other hand, let us hope that it is going to rain; but because it rains between now and Christmas and those conditions do not become operative, it does not rule out the possibility that those who think like Professor Lamb may be right—in which case, next year we may be in a difficult situation and we should, in my view, hope for the best but plan against the worst. That seems to be common sense. I hope in making these remarks that others in the House will give me their support.

§ Lord REDESDALE
My Lords, I should like briefly to thank the noble Baroness for the trouble she took in replying to our questions in the debate, and particularly on the question of damage sustained. I am personally grateful for her kind remarks.

§ Baroness HORNSBY-SMITH
My Lords, it is a rare occasion for me to find myself in agreement with the noble Lord, Lord Wigg. Although my interest is not horseracing, I used to represent a county deeply concerned with papermaking. I should like to support the noble Lord, Lord Wigg. We should plan ahead because, unfortunately, the weather may be patchy and the provisions which are made for water supplies vary from area to area in the country. As the noble Baroness told us, there is acute shortage in some areas whereas the situation is less serious in others. It is of vital importance that we should plan ahead. The weather could provide very diverse situations for comparable and competing companies if they either happen to be in an area of acute drought or in an area receiving reasonable supplies of water.
If the drought should continue—and we hope that it will not—it could have the most appalling industrial effects on the worst drought-ridden areas where there are industries, such as papermaking and certain sections of the textile industry, where it is essential to have water supplies. I fully support the noble Lord, Lord Wigg. We should plan ahead, particularly 957 in consultation with the Ministry concerned with the industries of this country which are dependent upon water supplies.

Lord HAWKE
My Lords, I fully support the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Wigg, on this matter. The Water Resources Board prophesied years ago that the demand for water would exceed the storage capacity. The present emergency has awakened the general public to this. A great deal more information and publicity about the past climate and the possibility of further storage, and related matters of that kind, would be welcome. We are not being fed very much by the media at the moment; I think Her Majesty's Government might take some initiative in the matter. We must remember that we have to give up the old habit whereby when anybody suggests storing water anywhere various societies get up and say, "You can't build that there 'ere".

§ Lord RITCHIE-CALDER
My Lords, I should like to support my noble friend Lord Wigg in his demand for pre-planning. I want to quantify what he said about the research activities at East Anglia. Professor Lamb and his people deserve all credit; but there is a massive amount of significant work going on in climatology in other parts of the world. We should be doing more with the World Meterological Organisation, and others, in getting this matter into perspective. I would say categorically that this is not a "blip" on the chart, this is a serious phase in the change of climate of the Northern hemisphere. The sooner we face up to that, the better.
We as a country have been very remiss. I remember my late friend Aneurin Bevan saying that this country was a lump of coal entirely surrounded by fish, and anybody who could mismanage both coal and fish at the same time was pretty hopeless. If we can mismanage the weather in this country, in terms of not being able to cope with what we have got, then it is shocking. The resources and reserves of this country, which are not just local rainfall, precipitation, and so on, should be much more carefully studied.

§ Lord BARNBY
My Lords, it seems appropriate that I should raise the following 958 point to give support to what the noble Baroness, Lady Hornsby-Smith, said. The textile industry requires large amounts of water for its processes. At the present time the industry is imperilled because of the extravagant increases in water costs. Water costs have increased up to 400 per cent. in recent times. This is introducing costs into the textile industry which are far and away larger than are borne by any of our main Continental competitors in the EEC. It is for that reason that I think it is timely at this stage to draw attention to that aspect of the matter.