HL Deb 21 July 1976 vol 373 cc848-58

2.58 p.m.

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time. The need for this Bill arises from the proposed change of the Constitution of Trinidad and Tobago, which has been a sovereign independent member of the Commonwealth since 1962, from a Monarchy to a republic. Such a change has been the declared policy of the Government of Trinidad and Tobago for some time. A Bill to that effect was passed through both Houses of the Trinidad Parliament on the 26th March and received the Governor General's assent on the 29th March.

The Trinidad and Tobago Republic Bill now before your Lordships is to make the adjustments in our own law which are necessary as a consequence of this constitutional change in Trinidad and Tobago. This is not a new procedure; there are well-established precedents. Similar Bills were introduced when other Commonwealth countries made similar constitutional changes. The most recent case was the Malta Republic Act 1975.

The present Bill like the others which preceded it is short and, I feel sure, uncontroversial. It provides that the operation of the law of the United Kingdom, Channel Islands and the Isle of Man existing in relation to Trinidad and Tobago when it becomes a republic and to persons and things belonging to or connected with Trinidad and Tobago is not affected by the fact that Trinidad and Tobago becomes a republic.

The reason why it is desirable to make such provision is that much of our existing law relating to Commonwealth countries still dates from the time when all such countries were under the Queen's sovereignty. One therefore finds in it, for example, expressions such as "parts of Her Majesty's Dominions", which, in the absence of this Bill, will no longer cover Trinidad and Tobago when it is a republic. The Bill will also have the same effect on the law of dependent territories of the United Kingdom in so far as their law consists of Acts of the United Kingdom Parliament extending to them, and of Orders in Council extending such Acts to them. This is desirable since the local Legislatures in the dependencies would not be competent to make the necessary provision themselves.

The new Constitution of Trinidad and Tobago retains provision for appeals to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. Because of the Judicial Committee's interest in avoiding possible delay between the effective date of the constitutional change and the passage of our legislation, the Bill has been drafted on a prospective, rather than the more usual retrospective, basis. It will be brought into force by Order in Council once the date of the constitutional change is known, probably during our Parliamentary Recess.

The Government of Trinidad and Tobago have informed the Commonwealth Secretary-General that they wish the country to remain a member of the Commonwealth after it becomes a republic. The Secretary-General has so informed other members. Her Majesty's Government warmly welcome Trinidad and Tobago's continued membership of the Commonwealth.

I am sure all noble Lords will join me in extending to the Government and people of Trinidad and Tobago our sincere good wishes for their future peace and prosperity.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Goronwy Roberts.)

3.2 p.m.

Baroness ELLES

My Lords, we thank the noble Lord for his very clear explanation of both the meaning and the purposes of the Bill before us. Of course, we agree entirely that it is a non-controversial Bill and we on this side of the House would like to join the noble Lord in his message of goodwill to the people of Trinidad and Tobago. Those of us who are stamp collectors have wonderful memories of that country with their stamps depicting palm trees and pleasant sandy beaches; and for many others it conjures up ideas of calypso and steel bands.

That is only part of the Trinidad and Tobago of today. In a world of interdependent economies, they have rightly decided to share their economic problems with other members of the Caribbean in the formation of CARICOM. One sometimes feels that the problems of Trinidad and Tobago are very much like those of our own country. They depend largely upon oil and are switching from a labour-intensive to a capital-intensive economy, with the consequent unemployment. It is very much a reflection of what is happening here; so that we can appreciate the problems that are affecting that country.

Trinidad and Tobago will be holding elections very shortly. In so many of our dependencies which have become independent, we notice that there has been a one-man Government with no Opposition. I think that all of us who support democracy in every part of the world should be grateful and thankful to the people of Trinidad and Tobago for, according to the latest information, they have at least 15 Parties standing and campaigning in their next Election. I think that this is a matter for great rejoicing in all democratic countries. Certainly those of us on this side of the House would like to welcome the fact that Trinidad and Tobago, unlike other countries which have chosen to become Republics, have retained close links by retaining the right of appeal to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council as well as becoming and staying members of the Commonwealth.

It only remains for me and for noble Lords on this side of the House once more to wish the people of Trinidad and Tobago great peace and prosperity in the future, and to assure them that we shall always wish to retain the closest links with them.

3.5 p.m.

Lord PITT of HAMPSTEAD

My Lords, I hope your Lordships will forgive me for delaying you for a few minutes to make some comments on Trinidad, perhaps to reminisce a little and even to dream about what might have been; because I have very close and intimate connections with Trinidad. My wife was born there; it was there that I met her. My two elder children were born there. My elder daughter is now living there and, as she is married to a Trinidadian, if I am fortunate to have grandchildren some of them may well be born there. I practised medicine in Trinidad for several years and I am often meeting Trinidadians whom I knew before they were born.

I was very active in Trinidad politics. I was a member of the San Fernando Borough Council for six years and when I left Trinidad I was, in fact, the deputy mayor of San Fernando. I am, I may add, an honorary life vice-president of the Trinidad and Tobago Association, an office of which I am very proud. Moreover, it is because of Trinidad and Trinidad politics that I am in this country and a Member of your Lordships' House. I came here in 1947 to try to persuade the then Labour Government to grant responsible government to Trinidad and Tobago. I was then the president of the West Indian Party and Dr. Patrick Solomon who is at present the Trinidad High Commissioner in this country was the first vice-president. I was leader and he was deputy.

We had been agitating for responsible government. In fact we had got all the representative organisations to pass resolutions supporting our stand. By that, I mean all the borough councils, all the county councils, the majority of the elected members of the Legislative Council and, in fact, we passed resolutions in all the main centres of population in Trinidad supporting our stand for responsible government. On the other hand, the Governor and his official advisers and the nominated members of the Legislative Council were opposed to our proposals and were advising Her Majesty's Government to move slowly.

It was felt that because I had been an active member of the Labour Party in my student days and knew some of the Ministers I should come to Britain and put our case, while Dr. Solomon stayed in Trinidad and continued to campaign. I came. I was received by Ministers. In fact I was hoping that the noble Earl the Chairman of Committees would be on the Woolsack at this moment because he was one of the Ministers who interviewed me; he was then Minister of State at the Colonial Office. I was given the opportunity to address several Labour Party meetings but, in the end, the Secretary of State agreed to a Constitution substantially along the lines advocated by the Governor and his officials.

I decided that I was not interested in trying to work such a Constitution. I remained in this country and settled in practice in Euston. This is the history of why I am here. The odd thing is that I had decided at that time that I was through with politics; but, as your Lordships realise, it was not to be. By 1957 I had become the Labour Parliamentary candidate for Hampstead. I was defeated in the General Election in 1959; in 1961 I was elected to the London County Council and in 1964 to the Greater London Council, of which I am still a member.

Meanwhile, my colleague Dr. Solomon carried on the struggle in Trinidad. He, too, was defeated in the elections in 1950. But in 1956 he joined with Dr. Eric Williams and the late Learie Constantine to form the People's National Movement. He became Deputy Leader of that Party, and when that Party became the Government he was first Deputy Premier. On independence, he was Deputy Prime Minister. Your Lordships will be interested to know that the Party came to power after winning the 1956 elections by the then Secretary of State for the Colonies agreeing to the Governor's appointing to the Legislative Council two members nominated by the Party. In other words, he was sensible enough to use the Constitution in a flexible way to bring about some degree of responsible Government, even though the Constitution, as drafted, did not allow it. He further gave an undertaking that the Government would accept the advice of the executive council on which there was a majority of members of the majority party. That is how Trinidad moved to its first stage of responsible government.

Then, of course, came the Federation. Between 1958 and 1962 there was the West Indies Federation with Trinidad very much a part of it and the capital was actually in Trinidad. The Federation died when Jamaica decided, through a referendum, that she did not want to continue in that Federation. Your Lordships will be amused, but I must confess that the result of that Federation has had such an effect on me that when in 1970 during the General Election I was asked whether I would support a referendum about Britian joining the Common Market, I indicated that my answer was a very firm, "No".

After the Jamaica referendum we did not give up. In fact, I was asked to go out to the West Indies to see if I could help to salvage something from the wreckage, the idea being then we continue the Federation, with Guyana taking Jamaica's place. Frankly, I did not go beyond Trinidad. I found that too much water had passed under the bridge; the antipathy to the Federation was too great. As the Minister told your Lordships, Trinidad and Tobago became independent in 1962.

Our next "ploy" was to try to get Trinidad and Tobago to join with Grenada in a union. I have always regretted that that, too, did not come off. From the point of view of political union, we have not been able to make the grade in that part of the world at all. As the noble Baroness, Lady Elles, pointed out, the West Indies has not done too badly in terms of economic union. First, the Caribbean Free Trade Area and subsequently CARICOM have been quite successful and one hopes that will lead to a much closer union in the end. Trinidad is the island which is best placed to help this along. It is to the credit of Trinidad that it has recognised that fact. For example, it helped to bail out Grenada when Grenada was in difficulties. It has played a leading part recently in helping Jamaica out of her difficulties.

On the diplomatic side it has been very useful to Guyana on more than one occasion: first of all in defusing to some extent the Guyana-Venezuela problem. Trinidad and Venezuela are close, perforce they must be close, because the distance between Trinidad and Venezuela at its nearest point is seven miles. In the days when Venezuela had frequent revolutions, we were always told to be very respectful to the Venezuelans whom we met in Port of Spain because they might well be President the next day. This closeness has enabled Trinidad to help Guyana, not only in that respect but getting Guyana admitted to the American International Bank, even though by the Constitution of the OAS, Guyana cannot become a member of the OAS. Trinidad has to be complimented on the way, by some quiet diplomacy, they were able to achieve these things.

Now Trinidad is to become a Republic. It is the will of the people and one must accept it. There is, however—and here I perhaps disagree with the noble Baroness—an illogicality in the new Constitution in Trinidad's retention of appeals to the Privy Council. It is perfectly in order for a country of which the Queen is sovereign to retain the right to appeal to her through her Privy Council. It does not seem to me, however, to make sense to say that the Queen is no longer your Queen but that you still wish to appeal to her through her Privy Council over the heads of the judges and the Court of Appeal of your country. But that is how Trinidad wants it and that is how it will be.

I hope, however, that the Republic of Trinidad is merely a forerunner to the establishment of a Republic of the West Indies. Obviously, no nation in the West Indies can be a Monarchy now that both Guyana and Trinidad are Republics. One must hope that one day we will have a Republic of the West Indies. It is worth noting that there are only two things that carry the name "West Indies" at the moment; the cricket team and the University. I and many like me hope that one day there will be a nation carrying that name.

3.17 p.m.

Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, I also have pleasure in welcoming this Bill. I am delighted that these people are continuing their prosperity and, I hope, their peace. My reason for joining in this debate is because I had the honour of visiting these islands, first of all, with the noble Baroness, Lady White, and secondly, with the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell (who is an excellent travelling companion) to present in 1962 on behalf of Her Majesty's Government a bookcase and gavel to the Government of Trinidad and Tobago when that country became independent. I should like to take this opportunity of thanking them for the great hospitality we received and congratulate Doctor the Honourable Eric Williams, Companion of Honour, for the excellent way in which he has conducted the island's affairs since that date. We were given every opportunity to meet the people. I have warm recollections not only of the excellent opportunity of seeing them in debate in Parliament but of the way in which we were received and the hospitality with which we were presented.

The present history has been given by the noble Lord, Lord Pitt of Hampstead. May I refer for the record to something of the past history? The aboriginal name was Iere—the land of the humming bird. This was discovered by Christopher Columbus in his third voyage in 1498. Through the Court of Madrid he changed the name to Trinidad. It is interesting to note that in 1532, Sir Walter Raleigh visited the islands and mended his ships in the great asphalt lake which is still there today and is still in use. The Dutch were there from 1595 to 1640; from 1677 to 1690, the French.

In 1725 there was a blight on the main crop in the island, which was cocoa. The Court of Madrid then issued, by Royal Proclamation, an offer to Roman Catholics of friendly countries to go to the islands to help to resuscitate the industry. The French Revolution followed later of course. In 1802, under the Treaty of Amiens, Trinidad was ceded to Britain as a Crown Colony. In 1834 came the emancipation of slaves and in 1845 a number of immigrants from China, India and Madeira came to the country. In 1488 Tobago was discovered. At that time it was inhabited by Caribs. Strangely enough, they all deserted the island and in 1596 it was found to be uninhabited. In 1630 300 Zealanders from Holland were settled on the island, and in 1888 the island was amalgamated with Trinidad.

In Parliament they have one Chamber, and perhaps your Lordships may be interested to know that they have unrestricted time in which to speak. In fact when the noble Lord and I were there we heard only one speaker, because he was speaking for the entire time of two and a half hours, which was the time we spent there.

We had a debate last night on race relations, and I should think that Trinidad and Tobago represent excellent examples of good race relations. I have mentioned the number of races which came to the island, but there are also ten completely separate religions. In their Parliament one sees names like Robinson, Gomez and Mohammed. I would suggest one cannot have names that are more mixed than that.

Lord DAVIES of LEEK

My Lords, I am sorry to intervene in the charming and excellent speech of the noble Baroness and I do apologise; but please do not let us forget the contribution made by Welsh pirates!

Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, I did not mention them because I thought that was the only blot there was in the history of the country. I should like also to pay tribute to the educational facilities in this very mixed association of peoples. The education is excellent and I, too, having seen it personally, would like to pay tribute to the excellent work done for handicapped children, and particularly for blind and deaf children.

I think the noble Lord, Lord Pitt, may be interested to know that when the noble Baroness, Lady White, and I attended the last meeting and the last lunch with the Federation—which I regret as much as he does—there were many tears shed at that last meeting. But I shall always remember the gaiety of the people and the magnificent festivals they organise. I hope that, through the High Commissioner, we may this afternoon send our greetings to the islands, together with our best wishes that they should continue in peace, prosperity and happiness in the future.

3.23 p.m.

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I should like briefly, but very warmly, to extend my thanks to those Members of your Lordships' House who have spoken with such grace and in such a constructive spirit on this Bill which is so important for the future of Trinidad and Tobago, and its relations with this country. The noble Baroness, Lady Elles, made what I thought was an admirable speech, and I am sure that the Prime Ministers of this country and of Trinidad and Tobago will read it with great pleasure. My noble friend Lord Pitt made a speech of great fascination. One would have liked to listen to much more, but no doubt we shall hear him on further chapters of autobiography and of the history of Trinidad and Tobago in the future.

There cannot be much wrong with a country which produces so sturdy a constitutionalist as my noble friend Lord Pitt, so brilliant a cricketer as the late Lord Constantine or indeed so devoted a Parliamentary democrat as Dr. Eric Williams. I should like particularly to thank the noble Baroness for making that latter point. In a world where too many countries are in a hurry to seek illusory short-cuts by abandoning fundamental freedoms, the example of Trinidad and Tobago, its Prime Minister and its other statesmen, should serve as an example to many.

I am most grateful to my noble friend, if I may so call her, Lady Vickers, for what she said and for her historical resume. I could not fault it in the least, except that I noticed my noble friend Lord Davies of Leek, in a skilful intervention, attempted to annexe Trinidad and Tobago to the Principality of Wales. My final point, after listening to my noble friend Lord Davies, is to observe that all the Welsh pirates are no longer in the West Indies.

On Question Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.