HL Deb 14 July 1976 vol 373 cc333-9

3.47 p.m.

The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Shepherd)

My Lords, with the permission of the House, I will now repeat a Statement which is being made in another place by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister about the meeting of the European Council which he attended in Brussels with his right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary on 12th and 13th July. I will use his own words:

"The meeting was a constructive one, and progress was made on a number of issues of importance to the United Kingdom and to the Community.

"The Council reached agreement on the total number of seats in a directly elected European Assembly and their distribution between Member States. The solution to which I formally assented yesterday gives the United Kingdom 81 seats in an Assembly of 410.

"No solution is ideal, but this outcome provides a reasonable balance between the need to have sufficient numbers to retain a manageable constituency relationship and the need not to inflate the Assembly to excessive proportions.

"The overall size is within the range proposed by the Select Committee and the distribution of seats takes due account of the principles they put forward.

"I also explained that Her Majesty's Government would, for the time being, keep open the possibility that the United Kingdom might continue to nominate representatives in 1978, should it prove impossible to hold elections here by that time.

"The Danish Prime Minister similarly reiterated his Government's position on holding elections in Denmark. The European Council entrusted to Foreign Ministers the task of settling a number of outstanding issues before the end of July.

"At my proposal, there was also a discussion of the fisheries problem. I drew the attention of the Heads of Government to the trend towards increasing fishing limits to 200 miles and the need for the Community urgently to tackle the problem of protecting the legitimate interests of Community fishermen, in view of the prospect that an increased number of outside fishermen might wish to fish in the potential waters of Member States.

"It was agreed that the Foreign Affairs Council should consider the problem urgently at its next meeting on 19th and 20th July with a view to making a declaration of intent on the extension of Community fishing limits to 200 miles.

"My right honourable friend and I emphasised to our colleagues the great importance which Her Majesty's Government attach to the revision of the CFP to meet adequately and permanently the needs of our fishermen.

"We had a valuable discussion on the problem of international terrorism and issued a declaration condemning it in the strongest terms and stating the intention of all Community Governments to take resolute steps against hijacking, the taking of hostages and other acts of terrorism.

"The Member States agreed to prosecute or extradite to other Member States those who engaged in the taking of hostages. Further discussion of this question will be pursued by the appropriate Ministers from each country.

"The Heads of Government welcomed Her Majesty's Government's intention to nominate my right honourable friend the Home Secretary to be a member of the European Commission from 1st January next year. They made clear their intention in due course to support his appointment as President of the Commission under the procedures laid down in the Treaty.

"We exchanged views on various aspects of the international economic situation. Several Heads of Government expressed the view that budget deficits are too high and that there is a danger of growing inflation.

"I also argued that in certain States the high level of unemployment must be taken into account in formulating economic policy, especially in regard to young people. There was a general acceptance of this approach.

"The President of the Council reported on the work which Foreign Ministers are doing on the Tindemans Report. We agreed that this work should continue, and that a further report should be made to the next meeting of the European Council later in the year.

"I am placing copies of the statements agreed by the European Council on direct elections, fisheries, the Tindemans Report and international terrorism in the Library of the House ".

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

3.52 p.m.

Lord CARRINGTON

My Lords, this is obviously not the occasion to debate this important Statement, but I should like to thank the noble Lord the Leader of the House for repeating it and just to make three comments. I think that this was a very much more productive meeting than the last one which the Prime Minister attended at Puerto Rico—something actually seems to have happened—and, taking all in all, the compromise on the seats at the European Parliament is satisfactory. I do not know whether the noble Lord can tell us what steps the Government intend to take about the means of election, but certainly I think there are now sufficient seats to overcome some of the problems which would otherwise have arisen in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Secondly, I am glad that there is some progress about fishing limits, but I think the noble Lord will have heard earlier on this afternoon the anxieties expressed on all sides of the House about these. Thirdly, I should like to say once again, as I did earlier on this afternoon, how greatly I welcome the appointment of Mr. Jenkins. I can think of nobody better suited and all your Lordships will wish him every possible good fortune.

Lord BANKS

My Lords, I, too, should like to thank the noble Lord the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement made in another place. I should also like to welcome the fact that this meeting of the European Council appears to have been very much more successful than the previous one, and that, as the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, said, agreement has been reached on a number of important matters. We on these Benches are particularly encouraged by the fact that agreement has been reached over the European Parliament and direct elections to it, though we are a little concerned at the Government's reservation about the possibility of not being able to meet the deadline; and we certainly hope that that will not materialise. With a Parliament of 410 members, it should be possible to ensure that the various geographical areas of the United Kingdom get fair and adequate representation, and I should like to ask that steps should now be taken to see that within those geographical areas shades of opinion are represented in proportion to their strength.

This reform of direct elections is clearly a very important and far-reaching one, but we should like to see it accompanied by the other reforms that are set out in the Tindemans Report, such as majority voting and more power for the Parliament. We are glad to see that discussion continues on these matters, but we hope that decisions will not be too long delayed. We also welcome the decision to press on with discussion of the fishing limits at the next meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council; and we, too, welcome the support which was given for the appointment of the right honourable gentleman the Home Secretary, as President of the Commission next year.

Finally, I should like to ask a question. I believe that discussion took place on representation of the European Community at international conferences, such as that held recently at Puerto Rico. I am wondering whether the noble Lord can tell us if any decisions were come to in this regard.

Lord SHEPHERD

My Lords, I am most grateful for the reception of the noble Lords, Lord Carrington and Lord Banks, and I agree, in view of the debate to follow, that although this is a welcome intervention it is one that should be kept as brief as possible. Therefore, I shall not try to react to the tone of the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, at the beginning of his speech. It was a successful meeting and I believe there are reasonable grounds for thinking that advances can now be made on a number of fronts. In regard to the direct elections and the compromise on seats—the new figure of 410, with 81 for this country—the question of distribution and the means of election will be matters for the Government and Parliament to decide. This is a national responsibility and the Government naturally await with interest the Report of the Select Committee in another place and, of course, of our own Scrutiny Committee here.

In regard to the reservation to which the noble Lord, Lord Banks, referred, it is certainly our intention to participate in the direct elections in 1978, but there are still a number of formidable difficulties to overcome. We hope we can do that, but we thought it right to make that reservation so that there could be no misunderstanding if it was found that we could not coincide at the outset with the European Community. In regard to Puerto Rico, I gather that there was a brief discussion but certainly no decision was taken. In regard to fisheries, the Government share the view of most noble Lords that this is a matter of very great urgency. It is complicated, but I think we have made a good start within the Community. There is now a real recognition of the importance of fisheries not only to the Community but also to the United Kingdom.

I join with the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and the noble Lord, Lord Banks, in welcoming the appointment of my right honourable friend Roy Jenkins to this very important position, particularly at this moment of great importance to the European Community. I believe that he will be a very great credit to this country and, if I may say so, I suggest that he is a reflection of what is this country, which in my view is, perhaps, slightly different from what we have heard in the last two speeches.

Lord GORDON-WALKER

My Lords, I hope my noble friend realises the importance of our getting direct elections here by 1978. If we go on appointing members—and we have to appoint 81—it will impose an almost intolerable strain on Parliament, both this House and particularly another place.

Lord SHEPHERD

Yes, my Lords, I entirely agree. There are difficulties, but it is our hope that we can overcome them.

Lord DUNCAN-SANDYS

My Lords, while warmly welcoming the decisions that have been taken as a sign that, after a period of stagnation, the development of the Community is once again making progress, may I ask the Minister whether the Government recognise that a directly elected European Parliament will expect, and will have to be given, effective powers? May I also ask whether the appointment of Mr. Jenkins which I most warmly welcome, also implies, having appointed a man of that political stature, that there will be a readiness to enable him to build up the strength and influence of the Commission?

Lord SHEPHERD

The noble Lord, Lord Duncan-Sandys, will have seen from the Statement that was made by the Prime Minister that the Council of Ministers have agreed that one of the first tasks of Mr. Jenkins should be a full review of the structure of the Commission. I think that is right. As regards the powers of the European Assembly, I can fully appreciate that a new Constitution and a change of procedure will bring about pressure for increased powers. This will be a matter for the nine Governments and the nine Parliaments. They, naturally, will have a great interest in whatever new powers are given to the European Parliament.

Lord HARMAR-NICHOLLS

My Lords, I am sorry to prolong this debate just a few seconds more. While I understand the new authority will want extra powers, it ought to be borne in mind that there will be a great resistance in some quarters which may spoil the effects of what the Community can do if the result is that the United Kingdom Parliament has too many reduced powers. If they can have extra powers without our present ones being taken away, it may well work: if the two do not go together, it may not.

Lord SHEPHERD

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. If you increase the powers of the European Parliament you naturally affect the powers of national Parliaments. That is why I said this is a matter to be agreed, not only by Governments but by national Parliaments.