§ 3,23 p.m.
§ Baroness MACLEOD of BORVEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many people were given board and lodging in their reception centres in London during the five days and nights of the Christmas period.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the numbers accommodated in the Supplementary Benefits Commission's reception centres in London during the Christmas period were as follows:
- Christmas Eve 965,
- Christmas Day 986,
- Boxing Day 1,021,
- Saturday 27th December 1,145,
- Sunday 28th December 1,106.
§ Baroness MACLEOD of BORVEMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Will he agree that there is very grave concern among most people in our cities about the single homeless people in the community? May I further ask him whether he is aware that a charity has been set up, the sole object of which is to try to take care of some of these people who are without homes at this time; and that, as a result of the creation of that charity, during the five days of Christmas over 11,000 meals were served by volunteers, over 500 people were given shelter and over 426,000 cups of tea were made, all by young people in our society?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the noble Baroness may be referring to the St. Mango Community Trust—and she may well not be, having shaken her head—and we are aware of the work which is being done by a number of voluntary organisations. The one to which I have referred provided accommodation during the Christmas period for an average of over 900 people each night and accommodated the people fed by the Crisis at Christmas organisation. But the noble Baroness is talking about single homeless people. I must remind your Lordships that the Question relates to the Supplementary Benefits Commission's 1105 reception centres, and the Commission are required under Section 34 and Schedule 4 to the Supplementary Benefit Act 1966to maintain reception centres for the provision of temporary board and lodgings for persons without a settled way of living. They have no powers to provide accommodation for single homeless people as such.
§ Lord MAYBRAY-KINGMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that any of us who happen to be out in London late at night are appalled by what we see under the railway bridges of London and in sheltered corners—fellow citizens sleeping on the pavement covered with newspapers; that we appreciate all that is being done by the State and by the voluntary associations, but that it has still not grappled adequately with this terrible problem of almost sub-humanity living like animals in the streets at night?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am personally very familiar with that situation, having observed it over a period of years. But one has to face the fact that there is an enormous amount of accommodation available every night, much of which is not taken up, and we have no compulsory powers to deal with people who appear to be anxious to sleep out, because they will not during daytime accept the invitation to sleep in a proper bed.
§ Lord AMULREEMy Lords, arising from that reply, can the noble Lord tell us what number of people lie every night in the streets of London? Has he any figures which would help on that?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLNo, my Lords. I do not have them. I doubt whether there is an exact figure. I know that over a period of years professional social workers have tried to assess the situation, but I will make a point of finding out whether there is a reasonably accurate figure and will let the noble Lord have it.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, can my noble friend tell me what means are adopted to inform these people that these services are available?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, a large number of people sleeping out in London are, I believe, visited at some 1106 stage of every night by members of voluntary organisations running soup kitchens and things of that kind, and they are made aware of the facilities that are available.
§ Lord PARGITERMy Lords, can my noble friend say to what extent, since the end of the war, vagrants' institutions have been closed down because of alleged lack of use?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLNo, my Lords. I cannot answer my noble friend's question.
§ Lord ABERDAREMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether those who go into these centres and may be in need of psychiatric care and assistance are then referred to a psychiatrist?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, there is an obligation on reception centres to see each individual personally on entering the centre. There is a preliminary interview immediately those individuals arrive, but on the following day, if it is felt necessary, the person is examined by a doctor in case there is evidence of mental or physical illness, and appropriate action is then taken. Help is given to obtain employment if they are fit for work. If they require other accommodation, which many of them do as single homeless persons, efforts are also made to assist them in that respect. However, I think that the answer to the noble Lord is, Yes.
§ Baroness MACLEOD of BORVEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that in fact it was not the St. Mango Community Trust but Crisis at Christmas?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I do not want to prolong this Question but it was the St. Mango Community which took in a large number of people and fed them as a result of the Crisis at Christmas campaign.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to accept that we share his concern and admire his implementation of it. Does he also share our anxiety that there should be research into the way in which these people's lives degenerate to a position where they are virtually lost?