HL Deb 15 January 1976 vol 367 cc273-6
Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, I beg leaveto ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what arrangements are being made for the Gurkhas to remain in Brunei, in the employment of His Imperial Highness The Sultan of Brunei.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, we have announced our intention to withdraw the Gurkha battalion from Brunei, subject to consultation with the Sultan. The discussions with the Sultan of Brunei are still continuing and my noble friend Lord Goronwy-Roberts visited Brunei last week for a further round of talks.

Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I say that these talks have been going on for a considerable time and I think it is rather unfair on the Sultan of Brunei to prolong them. Does the noble Lord realise that they are very important to the Sultan, particularly in regard to the protection of the oil wells? The Sultan has always been a very good friend of this country, and also the money earned by those men helps the welfare of their country, in other words, the further development of Nepal.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I do not think that protracted discussions with the Sultan so that we can reach an agreed solution are unfair on the Sultan. I am certain that my noble friend has been negotiating in the most constructive possible way.

The Earl of SELKIRK

My Lords, do the Government recognise that the greatest desire almost all over the world is for stability and peace, and that this is the role which these Gurkhas are playing? They have the very remarkable quality of living in an acceptable manner with the indigenous people in any part of the world where they happen to be stationed.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords,do not think anybody is casting any doubt on both the military and the social virtues of the Gurkhas. What we are talking about is our discussions with the Sultan, and the present round of talks has been completed and will be continued again in London in the spring of this year. We are not presenting the Sultan with a diktat; we are having discussions with him.

Lord DERWENT

My Lords, in the unfortunate event of this Gurkha battalion being withdrawn from there, is it known what is likely to happen to this battalion? Do we yet know where they are likely to be sent?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

The discussions are going on, my Lords. We have said that in the long run there will be a reduction of one battalion of Gurkhas. If this should take place, it is some way off; the brigade will, of course, be retained, serving mainly in Hong Kong.

Lord CAMPBELL of CROY

My Lords, is it still the position that the Sultan is himself prepared to pay fully the costs of the battalion staying there, not only the battalion's pay but also all the other costs?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

I cannot answer that question definitely, my Lords. I will either answer the noble Lord on another occasion or write to him. But obviously this must be a factor in the negotiations that are going on.

Lord INGLEWOOD

My Lords, may I ask the Minister to tell us what is the major point of negotiation, considering it is widely believed that the Sultan is prepared to bear all the costs and that it is to the British advantage that the battalion should stay there? What, therefore, is the reason for these negotiations?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

To get the most satisfactory solution of this particular problem, my Lords.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, is it not a fact that the presence of the Gurkha Regiment was necessary in Brunei to oppose the infiltration of arms from Indonesia; but now there is a Government in Indonesia who have ceased that infiltration, will Her Majesty's Government use their influence so that any employment is not under the Sultan but under a democratic, elected Government?

Lord CHELWOOD

My Lords, is it not a fact that the Gurkhas themselves would like to remain there and that if they were to do so the Nepalese Government would have no objection?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, that is another question, which I cannot answer. Perhaps the noble Lord would table a Question on that matter.

Lord CHELWOOD

With great respect, my Lords, it is not another question; it is exactly the same question.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, we are not talking about the attitude of the Gurkhas or the attitude of the Government of Nepal. We are talking about negotiations between the Sultan of Brunei and my noble friend.

The Earl of DUNDEE

My Lords, does the Minister realise that the Gurkhas have some of the most magnificant pipe bands in the world and that their supreme excellenceis recognised by all the Highland regiments, even although, owing to their shortness of legs, comparatively speaking, with the Highlanders, the tempo has to be a little quicker?