§ 3.58 p.m.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will now repeat a Statement which is being made in another place by my right honourable friend the 1211 Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. The Statement is as follows: "With permission, Mr. Speaker, I will make a Statement on the special Foreign Ministers Council which met yesterday to continue the discussion of fisheries begun in the previous Council on 13th December.
"On behalf of the Commission, Mr. Gundelach gave a progress report on the state of negotiations with third countries. He regretted that he had so far been unable to reach agreement with the Icelandic Government on arrangements which would permit the resumption of British fishing in Icelandic waters from 1st January. He hoped and would continue to work for a positive decision by the Icelandic Government as soon as possible in January: but he indicated that this might not be possible until the Icelandic Parliament had reconvened on 24th January. The Council agreed that Mr. Gundelach's report gave great cause for concern. Further negotiations will be held in January.
"Against this background the Council decided that it would not be possible to reach agreement on the interim measures for an internal fisheries regime suggested by the Commission until greater clarity emerged as to how much fish would be available both inside and outside the waters of Member States. The Council therefore agreed that there should be a stand-still arrangement for the month of January, without prejudice to the position of any Member State on the content of a future fisheries regime. The text of the Council's Declaration will be circulated in the Official Report. It provides that Member States will restrain their catches in January 1977 to within the quantity taken in January 1976; and that existing conservation measures will remain unchanged during the short stand-still period. This one month stand-still is consistent with the need to consult on the detail of non-discriminatory conservation measures which will be necessary either as part of our Community agreement or prior to reaching agreement."
My Lords, that concludes the Statement. 1212 Following is the text of the Council's Declaration: "Fishing Activity for the month of January 1977.
"The Council agrees that catches taken in the month of January 1977, which will not exceed the quantity taken in January 1976, will count against quotas to be fixed for the interim period and all Member States will register these catches in accordance with the procedure foreseen under Article 5 of the Draft Interim Regulation. In this way there will be restraint by the fishing fleets of the Community and, having regard to the decisions taken in respect of third countries, there will be already a significant reduction of the total fishing effort within Community waters.
"It is further understood that during this short standstill period, while these restraints are in effect, existing conservation measures will remain unchanged and Member States will not take additional conservation measures.
"The Council intends to reach agreement on the interim measures for the conservation and management of fishing resources during this period."
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, we are grateful to the noble Lord for repeating the Statement made in another place. It is a very disappointing outcome to the negotiations, and this will be a most anxious Christmastime for the British distant waters fleet and their families, and for the three ports from which the Iceland fishing has traditionally been undertaken for many years. It is also a threat to the continued existence of much of the ancillary industry; for example, processing and distribution which are based on Humberside and Fleetwood, and the jobs which they entail.
Can the noble Lord give an indication of when the negotiations will be resumed? It was stated that final agreement would probably not be possible before 24th January when the Icelandic Parliament reassembles, but I hope that that does not mean that as soon as the holiday season is over the negotiations themselves will not be resumed. Has the time not come for the British Government and the EEC to bring into the negotiations with Iceland the whole question of the quantity of Iceland's fish imports into Britain and into the EEC? This is an important market for Iceland. and it should not be taken for granted. Since much of the trouble arises from Iceland's domestic political situation, should not the Icelanders be reminded of the realities which face them in neighbouring markets?
1213 The second part of the Statement reports on the matter which I raised just now, in the course of the Committee stage of the Fishery Limits Bill, with the noble Lord the Leader of the House. It indicates that the internal negotiations within the EEC for a new fisheries regime are being suspended because they are dependent upon the result of the Icelandic negotiations. Am I right in assuming that this means that everything is postponed for one month and that the new proposed regimes within the EEC 200-mile limit will have no start made to them until 1st February?
§ 4.5 p.m.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, I join with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, in expressing gratitude to the Minister for repeating this appalling Statement. As I read it, the whole of the Hull fleet will now be out of action for a month and the whole of the rest of the industry will have no work to do, or very little work to do, because of the supply of fish. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, put it delicately, but I think that the time has come to say that small bullies need to realise the facts of life as well as big bullies. It is ludicrous that the Icelandic Government cannot comport themselves, and that they have got to go hack to Parliament, and have got such extraordinary, petty feuds going on that they will throw a whole industry out of gear. It is high time that we stopped pussyfooting about and told them the facts of life, and told them that they can go and sell their fish to the Russians, if they can find a market, unless they propose to be reasonable.
We are not fooling. Britain has been extraordinarily patient. They are traditional waters, and we have done everything in our power to be reasonable. We have put up with the interminable Law of the Sea Conferences and with broken agreements, and practically everything else, and it is high time that small countries as well as large ones learnt that you are going to have any form of international agreement you have to be competent, efficient, and reasonable. I would say also that this reinforces the enormous need for a 50-mile band at least for our own industry. As I understand it, from evidence given by the Ministry of Agriculture at an EEC Sub-Committee I attend, the 1214 50-mile band around our coasts could supply all the fish that we traditionally consume in this country if we had the conservation right over it and we regulated it.
The second part of the Statement says:
It provides that Member States will restrain their catches in January 1977 to within the quantity taken in January 1976; and that existing conservation measures will remain unchanged during the short stand-still period.What we are saying there is that the evils which have nearly wiped out the herring will continue for another month because we are being held up in our negotiations. I should like the Minister's view on whether this reinforces the case, until we get proper regulation, for a definite national conservation area which we control ourselves.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I should like to thank the two noble Lords who have responded from the two Front Benches. I agree that this is a most disappointing outcome of Mr. Gundelach's efforts, and it is a substantial setback to the Community and a very serious one for this country. It is especially serious, I entirely agree, to the very substantial communities in this country who depend on actual fishing and on processing. Their fate and fortune is very much in the mind of the British Government throughout all these negotiations.
This brings me to a central point which I think both noble Lords made. The time has perhaps come for the Community—and we act through the Community in these matters—to make clear to the Icelanders, and indeed to all third countries in this matter, that these negotiations and facilities are two-way matters. I agree that this country has shown exemplary patience throughout the prolonged negotiations with our ancient friends the Icelanders. But I cannot help joining with the two noble Lords, who I believe have voiced not only the feeling of this House but that of the country as a whole, in asserting that it is time to speak very clearly even to our very old friends on matters which affect us and which certainly affect some of our most substantial communities, especially on the East coast, as much as they affect them as a national community.
One bears in mind of course the position under Protocol 6, which regulates the 1215 general relationship, the economic relationship, between Iceland and the Community; I say no more than mention Protocol 6, which works both ways. We also bear in mind the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, repeated by the noble Lord, Lord Mackie of Benshie, about landings. There are of course aspects of landings which affect industry on our shores, but I think the point was well and reasonably made. I would be deficient in my duty and certainly at variance with my feelings unless I said that much in agreement with both noble Lords on that point.
Then Lord Campbell raised the question of negotiations, and I entirely take that point; it is essential that negotiations should be resumed as soon as possible. The Statement says the Council looks to negotiations being resumed in January. At the same time, the Statement mentions that the Icelandic Parliament does not reconvene until 24th January, which is well on in the standstill month, and I take that point. I believe that the Council wishes negotiations to start as soon as possible in January, but what the noble Lord said reinforces the point and I will see that it is taken to the right quarter.
The third point made by Lord Campbell was whether January was a standstill. It is. We proceed as of now, until 31st January, and that affects of course the agreement on the outer limits as well as what we had hoped to achieve on conservation. I know that an extension of a month of the present situation is not welcome to us. Nevertheless, it may well be a month during which the enormity of the situation will have been brought home to everybody concerned and that an accentuated attempt to achieve a settlement of reason may be provided.
§ Lord KENNETMy Lords, would my noble friend be so kind as to take one very constructively intended suggestion from the Benches behind him? The Commission in Brussels is increasingly undertaking these very technical trade negotiations for its Member countries. I think there will be few noble Lords who are surprised by the content of the Statement which we have just heard or who would have been surprised if forewarned six months ago that that would be the content of the Statement at Christmas. 1216 Are the Government satisfied, and are other Member Governments satisfied, that everything possible is being done to equip the Commission with the requisite technical advice, the requisite ability to be prescient and the requisite ability to formulate fallback plans in the event of misadventure in this type of field?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSI can respond at once to that question, my Lords. I have indeed consulted my noble friend Lord Peart who has very considerable experience of dealing with the Commission on these matters. He assures me, and I believe I know on my own account, that the Commission is well served by very able personnel who are in command of all the information which will enable them to be, as my noble friend Lord Kennet has said, prescient. It is a human failing that, with the best information and with the best personnel, wisdom ahead of events is not always possible. I think at this point my noble friend would like to join me, as I am sure the House would, in extending our best thanks to Mr. Gundelach, who has worked very hard indeed to achieve a settlement of reason with the Icelanders. I am sure that Mr. Gundelach, who many of us know and respect very much indeed, is more disappointed than anybody with what we hope will be the temporary outcome of his efforts.