HL Deb 09 December 1976 vol 378 cc678-9

3.13 p.m.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what response has been made to the proposal of the Warsaw Pact Alliance for the adoption of a treaty barring the signatories from using nuclear weapons first in any conflict.

The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord GoronwyRoberts)

My Lords, a copy of the draft treaty was received on the 26th November and is being carefully studied.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is there not a great danger that if any Government begin nuclear action it may extend to a devastating nuclear war which might destroy a large portion of mankind? In view of the Soviet Union's acceptance of the principle of inspection, is it not possible for Her Majesty's Government now to urge that a disarmament conference should be held dealing with both nuclear and conventional weapons?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I am sure the entire House will agree with the first part of my noble friend's question about the dangers of a nuclear holocaust. As to the second part, he is aware of our attitude as expressed fully at the United Nations in the last few weeks. Indeed, I contributed to that debate. I can assure him that we welcome any opportunity of discussing practically means of arms control and disarmament not only in the nuclear field but also, as he himself has reminded us, in the equally important field of conventional arms, especially when there is a marked predominance of conventional arms as in Europe.

Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTON

My Lords, will the noble Lord remember Aristide Briand's description of the disarmament conference of the animals? The lion looked at the cock and said, "Let us abolish spurs". The cock looked at the lion and said, "Let us abolish claws". The last to speak was the bear. He looked all round and said, "Let us abolish all these things but one great hug".

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I am sure we would agree with the late Aristide Briand and my noble friend that general abolition of all aggressive weaponry would meet the desires of human kind, especially in preference for a general hug.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, can the noble Lord say what sanctions are proposed against signatories to this treaty who disregard its provisions? Would we be firing one back?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, in so far as I have had time to study this draft treaty, I am not aware that sanctions are proposed in the Soviet draft.

Lord DUNCAN-SANDYS

My Lords, can we take it from the Minister's earlier reply that, in considering their response to this proposal, the Government will not overlook the fact that the Warsaw Pact countries have overwhelming conventional superiority?

Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I think I referred, somewhat obliquely, perhaps, to that fact in Europe. Indeed, I welcomed the balanced remark of my noble friend Lord Brockway, who is assiduous, and worthily so, on these matters, when he referred to the relationship of nuclear control and disarmament and conventional ground forces. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Duncan-Sandys, and my noble friend Lord Brockway are, for once, in agreement.