§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will extend economic aid and military guarantees to Zambia in view of its difficulties arising from the practice of sanctions against Rhodesia.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE: (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, we shall continue to maintain close consultation with the four presidents, including President Kaunda, on all matters relating to Rhodesia and its effects on their countries, including aid.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, while there is less isolation in Zambia than when I tabled this Question, does not the Minister agree that it has suffered severely from its heroic participation in sanctions upon Rhodesia and that now there is a lack of industrial equipment, unemployment, a lack of consumer goods and a rise in copper prices? In view of Dr. Kissinger's speech in Zambia yesterday, would the Government consider, with the United States of America and the United Nations, providing credits in order to allow for rural development, consumer goods and necessary spare parts?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, since 1965 we have extended aid to Zambia in recognition of the part it has loyally played in applying sanctions, to its own economic detriment, against Rhodesia. We are continuing to do this and, as I have said, we are in touch with Zambia and other African States as to the best way in which we can peacefully assist them.
§ Lord CARRINGTONMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that probably the most difficult situation which has been facing Zambia has been the decline over the past year or so in the price of copper, and, since the price has now greatly increased, that perhaps is the best thing that could happen from the Zambian point of view?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSCertainly, my Lords, an appreciation in the price of the major commodity in which Zambia deals would greatly help its economic position, together of course with a resumption of its normal transportation system.
Lord PAGET of NORTHAMPTONMy Lords, does not the maladministration account for a great deal more than does the price of copper? Before Zambia was independent she was about the richest of all the African countries and always ran a large surplus. Why has she been thrown into bankruptcy?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I do not think my noble friend's philosophy or his economics would commend themselves to Central Africa.
§ Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYEMy Lords, can the Minister give the House the figure of the aid we have given Zambia since 1965 to which he referred?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSYes indeed, my Lords. The information goes into some detail, and if the House would like to have it now I will give it; otherwise I will make more detail available through the Official Report in the appropriate manner. I find that assistance to Zambia to offset the effects of IDI amounted to nearly £24 million between 1965 and 1968. From 1969 to 1972 Her Majesty's Government agreed to release Zambia from certain obligations in connection with the financing of the Kariba hydro-electric scheme. The resulting commitment for us amounts to about £15 million spread over the period 1972 to 1989. I think that gives a fair picture of the extent to which we have constructively assisted Zambia over a very difficult period and in a peaceful way. If the noble Lord would like me to give further details I would, in response to the appropriate question, seek to do so.
§ Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYEMy Lords, I thank the Minister. I wished to have the total.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, does my noble friend notice that this Question suggests that we should extend economic aid and military guarantees to Zambia, and has he anything to say about this request for extra military guarantees, bearing in mind that many people in this country do not want to get involved in any bloodthirsty activities in that part of the world?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am afraid I have nothing to say on military guarantees because Zambia has not asked for them.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that when I tabled the Question I had in mind the danger to Zambia from what is happening in Angola?