§ Lord KINGS NORTONMy Lords I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is their intention to revitalise the HS 146 feeder line aircraft project which was put into a state of suspended animation at the end of 1974.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of INDUSTRY (Lord Melchett)My Lords, Hawker Siddeley Aviation have recently proposed an extension of the existing holding contract on the HS 146, and we are seeking further information from the company on a number of points. We shall also wish to take account of the views of the Chairman of the Organising Committee for British Aerospace in reaching a decision on the company's proposals.
§ Lord KINGS NORTONMy Lords, whilethanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask whether, when looking into this matter, the Government will take into consideration the great potential this aircraft has for the early 1980s? Would the Government also bear in mind that, if we are to cash in on that potential, it will be necessary to build some aircraft for development, testing and demonstration purposes?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, one of the matters on which we have asked the company to give us further information concerns the current sales prospects for the aircraft. My understanding is that from a full-scale start-up, it will take about three years to have the aircraft ready to sell. So I would agree with 2026 the noble Lord's suggestion that, if we are to do anything in the 1980s, urgent consideration will have to be given to the matter.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, before the Government commit any further money to this project, will they bear in mind that the aircraft is to be powered by an American engine and that to date, at least, not even a letter of intent exists for its purchase?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for reminding your Lordships that, since Government money is involved, we must take care before any money is spent. Certainly the engine is one of the problems of which the Government are aware, and my honourable friend the Minister of State recently had talks with the French Government. One of the points he stressed then—and I stress it now—is the keenness of the Government to involve their European partners in any European aerospace project.
§ The Earl of KIMBERLEYMy Lords, in view of what the Minister said, can he confirm that one of the leading aircraft manufacturing firms in Germany has also been approached by Hawker Siddeley with a view to building the engine of this aircraft?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, I regret that I do not have any information on what approaches the company may have made to anyone.
§ Lord THOMASMy Lords, are the Government aware that there is a growing need for aircraft that are slower, more efficient and make better use of the high-priced fuel that has been on the market since the oil situation developed? Are the Government aware that by encouraging this new Hawker design, British Aviation could fulfil a very long-standing need for short-distance high-frequency services?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, I am aware that there is a view that this aircraft could fill a slot which is currently empty in the market for commercial aircraft. However, as has already been pointed out, considerable sums of public money would be at stake; so we have asked the company to give us more information, particularly about the sales prospects and other matters.
§ Lord WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, will Her Majesty's Government bear in mind that there are American aircraft which use British engines and it is not necessarily undesirable to have a marriage between the technologies of different countries? Will Her Majesty's Government also bear in mind that in this firm the industrial relations are good and, therefore, there is an advantage, provided it can be shown to be economically desirable, to continue the development of this aircraft?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, if it is economically desirable, then I would say that it is desirable. Certainly, as I have said, we attach considerable importance to co-operative and collaborative effort, particularly in Europe, in introducing new aircraft. That is something to which we are giving considerable attention.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, can my noble friend tell me how the Government determine the period during which they expect this to be brought into operation? There was talk about the 1980s. Is it not a fact that many of the supplementary questions that have been asked have been based on wishful thinking? May such matters determine themselves in the future in a manner not expected by many of those who are asking the supplementary questions?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, I would not presume to judge the expectations of those asking questions of Government Ministers, but I hope I have myself avoided any wishful thinking. I have said that we are seeking further information before coming to any decision. Just to set the record straight, I did not mention the period of the 1980s; another noble Lord mentioned that. I merely said that, according to my information, from the present state of the project, it would be about three years before it would be ready to go into commercial operation.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, regarding the proposed American engine, can the noble Lord say whether any progress has been made on the proposal that the engine should be built under licence by Rolls-Royce?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, no, I cannot say whether any progress has been 2028 made, but no doubt that is one of the matters the company will be telling us about when they give us the further information for which we have asked.
§ Lord THOMASMy Lords, will the noble Lord accept that wishful thinking is better than no thinking at all, and that in the field of aircraft manufacture, as in other fields, one cannot accumulate if one does not speculate?
§ Lord MELCHETTMy Lords, I believe it is the view of noble Lords opposite that wishful thinking, so far as public expenditure is concerned, is not the right approach. It is certainly not one which this Government adopt.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that it is a grand thing not to look into the future but to look upon the past? Would he agree that not one of us, irrespective of our position in life, is able to say what will happen in the future, but we can look back at the past and know what really happened?