HL Deb 01 April 1976 vol 369 cc1285-8
Lord CAMPBELL of CROY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will ascertain from the Post Office how long it is expected that sorting by hand will be part of the process of separating second class from first class mail in the London area, and whether any of the existing or proposed mechanical methods for the United Kingdom depend upon identifying the 6½p stamp.

The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of ENERGY (Lord Lovell-Davis)

My Lords, in the absence of my noble friend, Lord Melchett, who has lost his voice, I am replying to this Question. I have ascertained from the Post Office that their machines are designed to segregate into the first class stream letters bearing an 8½p stamp or any combination of stamps up to that value. Almost half of the major sorting offices in London are equipped with machines designed to separate the two streams automatically, and the Post Office plan is for a fully mechanised system throughout the country within the next seven or eight years.

Lord CAMPBELL of CROY

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Lovell-Davis, for having stepped into the breach at short notice to answer this Question, and I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Melchett, will quickly recover from his indisposition. Can the Minister say whether the necessary equipment for mechanical operations is available, and what it is that is delaying the remaining introduction which will cause another six or seven years to elapse? Can he also assure the public that any combination of stamps which adds up to 8½p will be identified by the machinery as first class post? Is the noble Lord aware that this is a matter of very wide interest?

Lord LOVELL-DAVIS

My Lords, I too, feel a loss of voice coming on. The noble Lord's Question and my reply were concerned with the preliminary placing and sorting operations. Following the lifting of the ban by the Union of Post Office Workers in 1975, the postal mechanisation programme is going ahead. There are now 16 fully mechanised sorting offices in operation throughout the country and, altogether, approximately 40 offices have facilities for mechanical sorting of first and second class letters. I understand that the noble Lord's concern is to be satisfied that the letters of people who put 8½p worth of stamps on an envelope should get first class treatment. I am assured by the Post Office that its equipment can do this. Any system of mechanical separation of first and second class mail must rely on recognition of the 6½p stamp, for the simple reason that that is the current second class rate.

Baroness BURTON of COVENTRY

My Lords, has the Minister any information about the number of man-hours which it takes to sort first and second class mail and, arising from his reply to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, that it would be 7 or 8 years before machines were installed throughout, can he give us

any idea as to how that total will decrease? Alternatively, if he has not the information, could be possibly write and let me have it?

Lord LOVELL-DAVIS

My Lords, I have not that information. I shall gladly write to my noble friend on the subject.

Lord SWAYTHLING

My Lords, can the noble Lord give us an assurance that an envelope franked with 8½p by a franking machine will also receive treatment as first class mail, remembering that the value printed by a franking machine is very often not easily decipherable?

Lord LOVELL-DAVIS

My Lords, so far as I am aware, the Post Office has adequate means to ensure that a franked 8½p letter will receive first class treatment. However, I shall look into the matter and, if that is not so, I shall write to the noble Lord.

Lord ORR-EWING

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us by how much it will be possible to reduce the price of first class mail once these machines are in general use as a result of the lifting of the Post Office ban?

Lord LOVELL-DAVIS

My Lords, I can only suggest that, on matters of detail such as that, the noble Lord should write to the Post Office.

Lord CAMPBELL of CROY

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Lovell-Davis. I am in a position to sympathise with him about his voice because I had a tooth extracted earlier today and, although I still have my voice, I fear that I am lisping. May I ask the noble Lord a question about his reply that identification of second class post will depend on identification of the 6½p stamp? I must ask him, if he cannot answer now, whether he will guarantee that a combination of stamps which adds up to 6½p will also be quickly identified? I believe that this question needs to be answered.

Lord LOVELL-DAVIS

My Lords, in an effort to be helpful to the noble Lord. I answered his question after consulting the Post Office, whose responsibility this is. I can assure him as regards a matter which he raised the other day that Green Shield stamps will not be accepted. If he wishes to pursue the matter further, I must ask him to take it up with the Post Office.

The Earl of ONSLOW

My Lords, can the noble Lord say, with the decline in the number of letters posted and with the introduction of the new machinery, how much money has been saved on the wages bill?

Lord LOVELL-DAVIS

My Lords, I understand that the Post Office estimates that, in a full year, this could save about £3 million.