§ Lord BEAUMONT of WHITLEYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider making the educational expenses of students not receiving grants allowable against tax.
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, I have noted the noble Lord's suggestion, but I could not recommend a departure from normal rule that personal expenses not directly connected with earning income are not allowable for tax purposes.
§ Lord BEAUMONT of WHITLEYMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that rather disappointing Answer, may I ask whether the Government will look at the situation again, or at any rate will investigate other methods of helping students—especially university students—with their increased expenses and fees at the present time?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, coming back to the original Question, I would point out that to increase the fees with the one hand and to allow them for tax on the other would be difficult to justify because it would mean that the higher the income the lower the net cost, and the lower the income the higher the net cost. That is something to which I am sure your Lordships would not expect this Government to contribute. Any money which is available for this general purpose should be used to minimise the increase in fees. This is far better than providing for tax exemption.
§ Baroness LEE of ASHERIDGEMy Lords, is the Minister aware that poor 492 students are now excluded from the Open University as they cannot pay the increased fees? Does he not think this is directly relevant to earning a living when I inform him that I received a letter this week from a girl in a very low income group who has been made a headmistress because she had an Open University degree, yet at the moment only £50,000 —a derisory sum—is available for poorer students? If this particular proposition is not acceptable, will the Minister see whether something cannot be done to remove the disgrace that poor students are not now able to take advantage of Open University facilities?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, I will pass that suggestion to my right honourable friend. I fear I can do no more than that.
§ Lord SOMERSMy Lords, would the noble Lord also consider the case of music students who, above their ordinary expenses, have the extremely heavy expense of buying their instruments? Would he consider whether there is some possibility of allowing for that?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, our problem is that everybody wants curtailment but everybody has his own priority, and eventually we end by doing nothing in curtailment.
Lord INGLEWOODMy Lords, will the noble Lord bear in mind that the teachers of these students are allowed to set off certain expenses against tax and surely it is only right that the students should be put on something of the same basis?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, the noble Lord is referring to Schedule E, under which when the expense is in the performance of employment it is allowed. That is a different matter.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, would the Minister explain the logic of stopping people from contributing to the expense of education in direct grant schools and forcing them to pay the full fees in the case of university education?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, I am pleased to say that is entirely a different question.
§ Lord GARDINERMy Lords, will the Government consider the suggestion 493 put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, for this year, bearing in mind that in the case of the Open University all grants are discretionary and there is a probability that local authorities will not make the grants that they have made in the past?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, I can only repeat the very strong case there is against tax exemption. If any money is available, it should be used to minimise the increase in the fees, which is a much better way of handling the situation.