HL Deb 20 October 1975 vol 364 cc1164-7

1. Where a union membership agreement has been made as defined in section 30 of this Act and any independent trade union, being neither a party to the agreement nor specified for the purposes of or in relation to the agreement, claims that it should reasonably have been so specified, then the independent trade union may refer the matter to the Secretary of State in accordance with the subsequent provisions of this Schedule.

2. Upon a reference to the Secretary of State under the preceding paragraph then—

  1. (a) the union membership agreement shall cease to be effective in relation to any employee who is for the time being in membership of the independent trade union which referred the matter to the Secretary of State until the conclusion of the proceedings on the reference; and
  2. (b) the Secretary of State may after consulting with the parties thereto vary the terms of the union membership agreement and may also specify for the purposes of or in relation to the agreement the independent trade union who referred the matter to him.

3. The Secretary of State may make regulations governing the procedure to he followed on a reference to him under this Schedule and such regulations may contain such supplementary and consequential provisions as appear to him to be necessary or expedient.

4. Regulations made under this Schedule may provide for the Secretary of State to refer the matter in dispute or any part thereof to any person or body appointed under any other enactment dealing with industrial relations whether passed before or after this Act on such terms as the Secretary of State considers necessary or expedient and before exercising any power in paragraph 2(b) hereof the Secretary of State shall consider the report of the person or body to whom the matter was so referred."")

The Commons disagreed to this Amendment for the following Reason:

Because the Amendment is unnecessary, particularly given the recognition provisions of the Employment Protection Bill.

3.45 p.m.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, I beg to move that the House doth not insist on their Amendment No. 8 to which the Commons have disagreed for Reason No. 9. This is an issue on which the Government have more or less met the point of view of the Opposition. Therefore, I hope that this can be played in a very low key.

My Lords, the issue is the closed shop. The effect of the Amendment was to enable unions not specified in a union membership agreement to complain to the Secretary of State, who may vary the terms of the union membership agreement. Provision is also made for the Secretary of State to ask a third party to examine the issues, and report. The Government do not like this procedure because it enables any union, including unrecognised splinter unions, to put in a complaint about closed shop agreements without attempting to establish that they should be recognised, and hence to upset stable collective bargaining arrangements made between employers and recognised unions.

We have had further discussions with some of the small professional unions, who expressed concern about the practical problems they may face if closed shop agreements applying to their members are made. As a result, we have amended the Employment Protection Bill. The Employment Protection Bill already enables any independent union to refer a claim for recognition to the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service for investigation and recommendation. The recognition can be either limited or unlimited. We have now provided that when a union makes such an application, it is deemed to be specified for the purposes of a closed shop agreement. That means that its members cannot be unfairly dismissed without compensation for refusing to join some other union.

If the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service does not recommend that it should be recognised, this protection ceases; although the Service may suggest to the parties that special provision for the union's members should be made within the closed shop agreement. If the Service recommends that it should be recognised for any purposes, then the protection continues and those members for whom the union is recognised cannot be unfairly dismissed or pressurised by an employer if they do not join another union. These provisions meet very fully the substance of the Amendments made in this House, but without running the risk of upsetting established collective bargaining arrangements which are working well, and without causing difficulties about possible conflict with decisions of the Service on recognition.

My Lords, in the light of these changes in the Employment Protection Bill, the other place decided without a Division that the Amendments made in this House should lapse. I hope your Lordships as easily will agree to that proposition.

Moved, that this House doth not insist on their Amendment, No. 8 to which the Commons have disagreed.—(Lord Jacques.)

Lord SANDYS

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Jacques, pointed out, on the Committee stage in this House concern was expressed for the small independent unions, particularly professional unions, and those connected with local government. Perhaps it is worth recalling that the Amendment sought to make recourse in cases of difficulty not to the law, but to the Secretary of State. But it was said, of course, that this would be an encouragement, if not active encouragement, for splinter groups to manifest themselves. I say that because we make no apology for the fact that in your Lordships' House we pushed this Amendment to a Division.

Nevertheless, as the noble Lord, Lord Jacques, has fairly pointed out, the matter has now been met and the difficulty overcome to a very large extent in the recent Amendments made to the Employment Protection Bill before your Lordships' House. In that instance, I can confidently recommend to your Lordships not to insist on this Amendment.

On Question, Motion agreed to.