§ 2.40 p.m.
§ Baroness PHILLIPSMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have recommendations to make on the Parliamentary Commissioner's report on the safety of three-wheeled cars issued to invalids.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the matters referred to in this report are among the factors being taken into account in our present consideration of the provision of invalid vehicles and the extended mobility help which we shall be giving to disabled people. Arrangements for giving driving tuition to three-wheeler drivers and for maintaining their vehicles are being further reviewed. My noble friend will have seen the public Statement on the safety of the three-wheeler made on 14th October by my right honourable friend the Minister for Transport.
§ Baroness PHILLIPSMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, but I wish to ask him whether in the interim the Government will continue to issue vehicles which, according to the Parliamentary Commissioner's report, have been described as "inherently unstable"?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, in the meantime we shall continue to issue vehicles. I should point out to your Lordships that my right honourable friend the Minister for Transport referred to the report in a speech on 14th October to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, and he made it clear that he saw no case whatever on safety grounds for imposing a ban on this class of vehicle.
§ Lord MAYBRAY-KINGMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether it is now clear that the invalid tricycle is dangerous and that the policy of Her Majesty's Government ought to be to move away from the invalid tricycle to the four-wheeled vehicle?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the use of the word "dangerous" is rather dramatic. The invalid tricycle is dangerous in the way that four-wheeled cars are dangerous in the hands of certain people.
The Earl of SNOWDONMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the Department of Health's statistics have shown that the Department's tricycles overturn on the road at 33 times the frequency of adapted four-wheeled cars?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, we are aware of the figures and of the Parliamentary Commissioner's report. We are also aware of the investigation made into the matter by the Department of the Environment. We are not saying that this vehicle is without its difficulties. We are considering the Parliamentary Commissioner's report, as indeed we are considering the views of the disabled organisations. I hope that within the next few weeks the Parliamentary Commissioner's report will be available to your Lordships—when he next makes his quarterly report to your Lordships' House —and then perhaps we can take the matter further.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, could my noble friend say to what contracts for 1142 the supply of these three-wheeled vehicles his Department is already committed?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, if my noble friend's question is in relation to the manufacture of three-wheeled vehicles then I am afraid I cannot answer that question because I do not know, but if the question is in relation to repairs and maintenance then I can say that this is a matter which has received a good deal of publicity of late and is another matter with which we are dealing without delay.
§ The Earl of KIMBERLEYMy Lords, could the Minister say whether a disabled driver has to pass a test before he or she is allowed to drive one of these vehicles, or can they simply sign a statement saying that they have received adequate tuition which they think is satisfactory?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am under the impression that there is no formal test as perhaps is envisaged in the mind of the noble Earl. That is why I said that arrangements for giving driving tuition to drivers of three-wheelers are being further reviewed.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that many drivers of these three-wheeled vehicles like them very much? Is he also aware that many other drivers of these vehicles do not like them very much? Would not a remedy for this situation be to issue three-wheeled vehicles to those who want them and four-wheeled, modified vehicles to those who would prefer the four-wheeled ones?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I would agree with what my noble friend said in the first part of his question. The Department is not prepared to provide four-wheeled cars for a variety of reasons, too long, perhaps, to go into at this present juncture.
§ Lord SOMERSMy Lords, is my noble friend aware of the fact that the Institute of Advanced Motorists have examined these vehicles and have passed them as absolutely satisfactory for their purpose?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am much obliged to my noble friend.
§ The Earl of ONSLOWMy Lords, can the noble Lord explain the difference between "inherently unsafe" and "dangerous"?
§ Baroness PHILLIPSMy Lords, I should like to come back on this question because I think it would be unfortunate if the impression given in the question put by the noble Lord were left. May I ask the Minister whether he will consider quite seriously if it is wise, whether or not people want them—there are always people who are not aware of danger—to continue to issue these vehicles while there is some element of doubt about their stability?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, whatever differences of opinion may exist in your Lordships' House on this matter (and I know there are many), may I assure your Lordships that we recognise the problem—we have read the reports, we have taken the advice of experts and we have a wealth of information—and we are considering what is best, bearing in mind, as my noble friend Lord Leather land has said, that a large number of recipients of three-wheelers have written to us asking us not to withdraw them.
§ Lord AIREDALEMy Lords, did the Minister say that this report, which was extensively leaked to the Press several weeks ago, will be published within the next few weeks, or did he merely express the hope that it might be published?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I think that what I said—and if I did not say this perhaps I may correct myself—was that I understand that the report will be presented to your Lordships' House with the Parliamentary Commissioner's next quarterly report in a few weeks' time.