§ 3.7 p.m.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they propose to take to ensure the independence of consumer consultative bodies from the industry with which they are concerned and whether such steps include the provision of funds to enable those bodies to employ experts or consultants.
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, certain responsibilities in relation to consumer councils in the fields of coal, gas, electricity, surface transport and Post Office services have already been transferred, on 1st February this year, to the Department of Prices and Consumer Protection from the Departments responsible for their respective industries. The Government also introduced legislation, on 1st May 1975, to enable the Gas Consumers' Council and the Electricity Consultative Councils to be financed from public funds and not, as at present, by their industries. The other consumer councils I have mentioned are already financed from public funds. The National Consumer Council will be free to recommend what further steps might be taken, including those suggested by my noble friend, when it reports on its review of the present arrangements for consumer representation in the nationalised industries.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, while I am delighted at anything that is transferred to the Department of Prices and Consumer Protection, may I, while thanking my noble friend for that satisfactory Answer, ask him whether I am to assume from it that it is the desire of the Minister and the Government that all consumer committees of nationalised industries shall be seen to be independent of the industries concerned and shall all have funds to conduct their own research?
§ Lord JACQUESYes, my Lords, but, so far as research is concerned, we should hope to avoid duplication of expenditure.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, while I support the noble Baroness—I always have in questions of this kind—I wonder whether the Answer which the Minister gave will enable complaints to be answered more quickly. I have a complaint which dates from the middle of January, though I have had pleasant answers. Could the noble Lord assure me that, under this new arrangement, I shall now receive a quicker reply to my complaint?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, I very much doubt whether the new arrangement has anything whatever to do with the complaint.
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, does my noble friend not agree that a higher proportion of working housewives would provide a larger number of experts free of charge?
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, with regard to the Answer which my noble friend gave and which has received so much support from my noble friend Lady Burton of Coventry and the noble Baroness, Lady Emmet of Amberley, do the Government really feel that the action which they have taken is, so far as the Post Office is concerned, the right and proper one? Are they not overlooking the fact that not only will the Post Office have a national board but it will also have district councils in every region which will deal with postal matters on behalf of the consumer?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, the first question dealt with housewives. Information from housewives in a matter of research is not free of charge. It has to be collected and somebody has to pay for that. So far as the Post Office is concerned, all that has happened is that the Post Office, like all the other industries, will have a council which is responsible to the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection, because it is a consumer matter. It will not in any way affect the operation of the Post Office.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, can I further exploit my question to the Minister by asking whether, as 836 he said that experts and consultants would be employed, he thinks that that will enable my questions to be answered more fully and more quickly?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, I think the noble Baroness has taken the words "experts and consultants" from the Question and not from the Answer. Experts and consultants will be employed when it is necessary to employ them and provided it does not result in a duplication of expenditure.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that I cannot agree with his reply to my supplementary question, because it is wrong to break up now the system that has been in operation ever since the consumer councils first started? Is my noble friend aware that they have been doing a good job within the respective regions of the United Kingdom, and it would be a shame to change the position?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, I reinforce what I said; this will make no difference to the operation of the Post Office. The transfer of responsibility to the Department of Prices and Consumer Protection means that the appointments are made by the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection in consultation with the Minister responsible for the industry concerned. Secondly, any references to the Consumer Council—whether it be the Post Office or any other—can be made by the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection. Finally, any representations and reports from the consumer councils of any of the industries concerned, including the Post Office, can be made to the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection. Surely it is to her that consumer councils should report.
Lord WALLACE of COSLANYMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that in putting my supplementary question I was well aware of the fact that collecting information costs money? What I was hinting at was that a fairer proportion of working housewives should be members of these consultative bodies.
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, I think I would agree with that.