HL Deb 14 May 1975 vol 360 cc712-4

2.39 p.m.

Lord ELTON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have yet made a decision on the protection of the careers of teachers who are teaching efficiently in direct grant schools, but who are not otherwise qualified, when the direct grant is withdrawn.

The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and SCIENCE (Lord Crowther-Hunt)

My Lords, guidance on this matter has been sent by the Department of Education and Science to direct grant schools and local education authorities. While no guarantee can be given that qualified teacher status will automatically be granted to teachers entering the maintained system who do not already possess it, the Department will be ready to consider an application from a local education authority for such status to be granted to a teacher without it on the basis of a combination of service, experience and qualifications. The Department will also be prepared to agree to any request from a local education authority for the period of probation to be waived in the case of a teacher who transfers to the maintained system after satisfactory service in a direct grant school.

Lord ELTON

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. May I ask what comfort teachers may expect to draw from it, since the assurances of good will which it implies—which are the same as implied in the circular letter issued many weeks ago from which he quoted—apply to local authorities as prospective employers and not to teachers?

Lord CROWTHER-HUNT

My Lords, the teachers concerned could draw every comfort from that. While no blanket award of qualified teacher status can be given in advance, each case will be looked at on its merits as sympathetically as is consonant with the maintenance of the standards of the profession.

Lord ELTON

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that further reply, may I ask whether this will be extended to the question of salaries? Does the aspiration contained in the letter extend to the sentence: The Burnham salary document does not apply to staff hitherto employed in direct grant schools. Is he able to give an assurance that their urging of the maintenance of salary and seniority standards obtained by the staff in the past will be maintained in the future?

Lord CROWTHER-HUNT

My Lords, that, in a sense, is a different question; but I am prepared to answer it in part. No guarantee can be given about salaries of individual teachers who are teaching in direct grant schools which become maintained, because the provisions of the Burnham salary document do not apply to direct grant or other independent schools. But my right honourable friend would expect the employing authorities to do what they could, within the terms of the Burnham salary document, to safeguard such salaries.

Baroness BACON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the statement he has made shows that the Government are being more generous to the unqualified teachers in direct grant schools than we were in 1968 to the unqualified teachers in the maintained system?

Lord CROWTHER-HUNT

My Lords, we are on this occasion trying to be as generous as we can without any lowering of the standards of the profession.

Lord ELTON

My Lords, while welcoming this intention of generosity, may I finally ask whether this extends to teachers who as a result of Government policy in this matter lose their jobs and become redundant? What will be the arrangements for payment of compensation and loss of employment for teachers who, as a result of this, cannot obtain employment?

Lord CROWTHER-HUNT

My Lords, that is a different question. If the noble Lord cares to put it down I will attempt to answer it.

Lord SLATER

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether, in view of this Question and Answer, it has become Government policy to waive the teachers' diploma to qualify to be a teacher? Is my noble friend aware that I have a direct interest in this issue, because my daughter is a teacher; and she had to spend two years at college in order to qualify, for which she received a teaching diploma?

Lord CROWTHER-HUNT

My Lords, there is no intention on the Government's part of waiving any of the present qualifications which are required to become a qualified teacher.

Lord DRUMALBYN

My Lords, would it not be reasonable, if the experience and qualifications of a teacher commend themselves to the Department, to take into account for salary purposes the years of experience?

Lord CROWTHER-HUNT

Again, my Lords, that is a rather different question. I have no doubt that it could be wrapped up in the Question which the noble Lord, Lord Elton, is to put to me on another occasion.