§ 2.45 p.m.
§ Lord GLADWYNMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what British Government awards are available or under consideration to enable nationals of developing countries to undertake research projects in British universities or polytechnics related to development in their own countries.
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, there is substantial provision for the training of research students from the developing countries in this country, and much of their research is of benefit to their own countries. Her Majesty's Government also finance a wide range of research projects in many scientific disciplines relevant to developing countries; scientists from developing countries take part in many of these and have sometimes proposed the projects.
§ Lord GLADWYNMy Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for that reply, may I express my regret that she cannot—
§ Lord GLADWYNNo, My Lords, I regret I cannot express my regret! But would she not agree that it is unfortunate that she cannot accept the specific proposal made in my Question? Would she not, for instance, agree that the principle is just as important for the students from 196 developing countries, such as we are referring to—who, if they are happy here, are in many ways the best ambassadors of British interests in the developing world —to have the possibility of having recognised practical qualifications, such as diplomas, enabling them to earn a living in their own countries? Is it not just as important for them to have such diplomas, as a result of practical short courses, as to have Ph.Ds which often take from three to five years to acquire, and are not of as much practical importance as a diploma for a short course?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I am not aware that in his Question the noble Lord made any proposal; indeed, it probably would have been incorrect had he done so. As to the second part of his supplementary question, as I understand it he wanted to dispute the way in which aid grants are made for education. In fact, I think we do an immensely useful job, both on research and on basic education for people from developing countries.
§ Earl COWLEYMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say what was the value of these aid grants for education last year, what it will be this year and how the grants are affected by the recent cuts in Government expenditure?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOENot without notice, My Lords.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, am I not right in thinking—and I shall be corrected if I am wrong, but I think I am right—that there are quite a number of foundations in this country, including, for instance, the Beit Foundation in Biochemical Research, which are commonly applied for by students from the developing countries? Also, is it not the case that if a student from a developing country is a graduate of a British university he can apply for a Ph.D research project through his own university, which is financed from public funds?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEYes, My Lords. There are many foundations which do this and, of course, the Government themselves administer many hundreds of grants of this kind and give assistance in every kind of way to students who need to 197 apply for grants from other foundations. There are many research councils which, under tight conditions, also give grants. On the whole, I believe we can be proud of what is being done.
§ Lord ORR-EWINGMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say whether the Government encourage such students to go back to the countries from which they come, in order to apply both the academic and the practical experience which they have gained here to the benefit of their own countries? Also, can she possibly tell us what percentage do go back, so that they can afford that assistance to the countries from which they come?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I am afraid that without notice I cannot give the noble Lord any percentage. However, there is no question but that the research work is directed towards the relevant needs of the developing countries, and it is most unusual for a student who gets that kind of knowledge not to want to apply it. Indeed, one of the criteria for Ministry support is that research work should be relevant to new knowledge and new techniques to be applied in the developing countries.
§ Lord WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether Her Majesty's Government propose to abolish the discriminatory fees charged to students from abroad? Would she not agree that at the present time a large number of students come from developing countries to do research in this country, but that they have to pay this extra fee which often falls as a further burden on research funds inside the university?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I have great personal sympathy with the views expressed by my noble friend, but of course I cannot speak on general policy, especially at such a time of economic difficulty. However, when we give grants to students through the Ministry of Overseas Development, the actual amount of these fees is paid by the Ministry in any case. So it does not arise on the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, which is on the subject of British awards. That is really what the Question is about.