§ 2.50 p.m.
§ Lord HOUGHTON of SOWERBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government (i) how many certificates, and under which classifications, were granted to research staff of Imperial Chemical Industries under the Cruelty to Animals Act 1876 to conduct the recently publicised experiments on beagles to test the effects of smoking, (ii) when the certificates were granted, by whom, and for what period of time, and (iii) how many primates and other species, if any, are undergoing similar tests for a similar purpose, in the research laboratories of the same company.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, there are two Certificates, A and E. They were given by the President of the Royal College of Physicians of London and the Waynflete Professor of Physiology in the University of Oxford on 20th July 1971 and 28th July 1971. No period of time is specified in them. No other animals are being used for this purpose in the 1098 research laboratories of Imperial Chemical Industries.
§ Lord HOUGHTON of SOWERBYMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply, which contains a distinct element of reassurance on the extent of these experiments at ICI. Nevertheless, is my noble friend aware that these experiments, which are wholly related to the weakness of human beings for the drug nicotine in tobacco, are part of an increasing number of experiments being conducted in commercial laboratories for commercial purposes? Would he agree that this side of the whole field of experimentation on living animals requires close examination?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the Government are aware of the strong feelings that have been aroused by the use of dogs in experiments to develop new smoking materials. I think it would be interesting to know that my right honourable friend has decided to refer this whole matter to the Advisory Committee on the Cruelty to Animals Act 1876 and to ask them to report on it as soon as possible. My right honourable friend is taking this opportunity to add to the membership of this Committee, which at present consists of ten persons who are qualified in human and veterinary medicine, under the chairmanship of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Cross of Chelsea, four independent lay persons, as was recommended, as your Lordships know, by the Littlewood Committee. The Advisory Committee are being asked to consider the question in consultation with the independent Scientific Committee on Smoking and Health set up in 1973 by the then-Secretary of State for Social Services under the chairmanship of Dr. Hunter. We are hoping that the Advisory Committee will be able to take these and other matters into account.
§ Lord PLATTMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his reply to the Question and being extremely pleased to know that the Government, at last, after a ten-year delay by successive Governments, are going to implement one of the important recommendations of the Littlewood Report, may I ask him whether he agrees that this kind of intensive experimentation highlights the need for new legislation, in view of the fact 1099 that the Cruelty to Animals Act is nearly 100 years old? Have the Government any plans for a new Act to replace the Act of 1876?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, as the Government have decided to refer this matter to the Advisory Committee, I should think that any further action would presumably depend upon what the Advisory Committee recommend. I think it will not have escaped your Lordships' notice that my noble friend Lady Phillips has presented a Bill for your Lordships' consideration dealing solely with cruelty to animals; but, I think, with respect, that we shall have to await the outcome of the Advisory Committee's deliberations.
§ Baroness EMMET of AMBERLEYMy Lords, I note that the noble Lord said that four additional lay persons have been appointed. Can he say whether any of these lay persons, or other members of the Committee, are women?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I understand that one of the existing members, that is, of the ten members who have medical or veterinary qualifications, is a woman. I understand that my right honourable friend is also thinking in terms of adding to that number when the four lay people are appointed.
Earl FERRERSMy Lords, in view of the third part of the Question which appeared originally on the Order Paper, can the noble Lord say how many "prelates" are involved and are undergoing such tests?
§ Lord AIREDALEMy Lords, can the noble Lord say when we may expect the Committee Report to be published?— because from the beagles' point of view this is rather an urgent matter.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, my right honourable friend is aware of the urgency. I cannot give a satisfactory reply to the noble Lord because the Committee have not as yet been asked to report within a specified time. I will see that my right honourable friend's attention is drawn to the noble Lord's supplementary question.