§ 3.10 p.m.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have considered the reported admissions of a gynaecologist that he was habitually aborting foetuses of up to seven months and either killing them after delivery or leaving them to die; what investigations they have made regarding the truth of these matters, and with what result; what action they propose to take and whether they will make a Statement.
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, the Government welcome the noble and learned Lord's Question. The attention of the Department of Health and Social Security was drawn to these allegations in October 1974 and, as I told your Lordships on 12th December last, they were referred immediately to the Director of Public Prosecutions, who has instituted police inquiries. The noble and learned Lord will know that a book entitled Babies for Burning has been published which contains various allegations about the working of the Abortion Act. Those of a criminal nature are the subject of police inquiry; those of an administrative nature are being pursued by the investigating staff of the Department of Health and Social Security. I understand that the police are in the process of interviewing the authors and that it will be several weeks before their inquiries are completed. I should like 1341 to assure your Lordships that Her Majesty's Government are deeply concerned about these allegations. They took action as soon as they heard of them, and will pursue the matter with vigour until it has been resolved.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, I am sure that the House welcomes what the noble Lord has said. As the allegations are the subject of inquiries, perhaps I had better be careful what I ask by way of a supplementary. Would the noble Lord confirm that, quite apart from the contentious matters about the policy of the Act of Parliament, to allow babies to be born alive and then to leave them to die or, worse still, to kill them, is either murder or manslaughter?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLYes, my Lords. The view of the Government is that it is murder.
§ Baroness GAITSKELLMy Lords, in regard to the very mischievous allegation of this gynaecologist—who, after all, could just have refused to abort foetuses of up to seven months—is it not true to say that those of us who regard abortion as the least desirable and ultimate method of birth control would neither endorse nor agree with anything of the kind of which this gynaecologist has accused people?
§ Lord WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am sure your Lordships will forgive me if I say that at this stage I do not want to go outside the Question put by the noble and learned Lord.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, can my noble friend say what is the most desirable disposal of foetuses up to 28 weeks' old, where a perfectly correct medical abortion has been performed—
§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Shepherd)My Lords, I hope that my noble friend will forgive me for interrupting. I think that his supplementary question is very wide of the Question on the Order Paper, and recognising the sensitivity of this matter I feel that we should leave the Question where it now is.
§ Lord SEGALMy Lords, I am perfectly ready to bow to my noble Leader's suggestion.
§ Several Noble Lords: No.
§ Lord HALEThe noble and learned Lord, Lord Hailsham, said that he thought he spoke for the whole House. At this stage it is surely possible to ask whether the Government will bear in mind the fact that this blanket welcome for the Answer is a little disturbing. I have mixed feelings. Will the noble Lord bear in mind that very serious medical men have, at this juncture, been expressing anguished thoughts about the problem of children born with muscular dystrophy or with spinal bifida, who are condemned to years of torture? Will he also consider the responsibility of medical men in this connection, who are performing a long series of operations which are ultimately and necessarily hopeless?
§ Lord SHEPHERDMy Lords, I am quite willing to consider, but I hope my noble friend will agree that whatever he may have said, however valid it may be, does not really arise on the Question before your Lordships' House.
Lord ST. JUSTMy Lords, may I ask, through the Leader of the House, whether we are likely to get an amending Bill on this subject? The last time that such a Bill was initiated it was a Private Member's Bill brought forward, I think, by the late Lord Silkin in this House.
§ Lord SHEPHERDMy Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that there is a Bill in another place, but I do not intend to speculate on its progress.