HL Deb 24 June 1975 vol 361 cc1271-3

2.35 p.m.

The Earl of BESSBOROUGH

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the EEC Energy Council of Ministers have yet approved, or are likely soon to approve, the Commission's proposal for programmes of research and development action in the field of energy (COM(74)2150 Final) bearing in mind the report and resolution of the European Parliament adopted on 13th March 1975.

The MINISTER of STATE, DEPARTMENT of ENERGY (Lord Balogh)

My Lords, the draft decision in this document will be considered by the Council of Ministers the day after tomorrow which will be attended by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Energy. I cannot therefore anticipate the conclusions of the Council.

The Earl of BESSBOROUGH

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. I am very glad that at last this matter is to be considered by the Council, because we in the European Parliament were pressed very much to give an opinion, in the hope that the Council would meet earlier. Now that the referendum is over, I hope the noble Lord agrees that the Government will come to a conclusion on this matter, and that the Council will he able to go ahead with their programme.

Lord BALOGH

My Lords, the Government have indicated that they intend to contribute to the formulation of the EEC common energy policy, at the same time ensuring that it is consistent with the national energy policy, as was also indicated by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, for the previous Government. In this case the Government are not entirely satisfied that the review arrangements contained in the draft decision are adequate. This is one of the matters which my right honourable friend the Secretary of State will be discussing with his European colleagues the day after tomorrow.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, could the noble Lord tell the House whether his right honourable friend the Secretary of State, in approaching the Energy Council, will have in mind the Seventeenth Report of the House of Lords Select Committee which referred to this matter, and which drew particular attention to the absence from these proposals of a plan to investigate the resource availability of energy over the coming 25 to 30 years, and the time scale during which known resources are likely to be completely exhausted?

Lord BALOGH

My Lords, the noble Earl can be assured that the Government will always pay the most diligent attention to anything which comes from any Committee of the House of Lords, and will certainly use this contribution effectively in Brussels.

Lord BLYTON

My Lords, will my noble friend assure us that within the Treaty of Paris they will ensure that British interests in oil and coal—and we have twice as much coal as they have on the Continent—are safeguarded for the British people and not for the Continent?

Lord BALOGH

My Lords, we shall follow the best French example in safeguarding the interests of our own country.

Lord AVEBURY

My Lords, while the noble Lord obviously cannot make any detailed comment on the recommendations of this report prior to his right honourable friend expressing the Government's view the day after tomorrow, is there anything he can tell us about the Government's attitude to the recommendation that a 15 per cent. saving in energy consumption by 1985 should be the target, as compared with earlier forecasts? Also, can he say how this is to be monitored, bearing in mind the fact that the Department of Energy does not publish any forecasts going as far ahead as 1985?

Lord BALOGH

My Lords, forecasts in energy matters have been, and are, the burial ground of economic reputations, and I do not think that I wish to enter the stakes to go downwards.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE

My Lords, could the noble Lord assure the House that his right honourable friend, paying due attention to the very important Report by a very important Committee of this House, is particularly seized of the obscurity of these proposals in regard to both coal conversion and thermo-nuclear fusion? Furthermore, does he appreciate that there is a danger of overlapping operations between the EEC, the IEA, the International Atomic Energy Authority and the OECD, all of this being mentioned in the Report?

Lord BALOGH

My Lords, we are very grateful for this strengthening of our intellectual case.

The Earl of BESSBOROUGH

My Lords, would the noble Lord draw the attention of his right honourable friend to the importance of placing as much indirect action contract research in Member-States as possible, rather than perhaps spending more money in the joint research centres of the Community itself?

Lord BALOGH

Fortunately, my Lords, I can answer this question. It is proposed that all the work should be undertaken by indirect action; that is, by contracts placed directly by the Commission with Member-States' organisations, Government laboratories and private companies. Responsibility for implementing the programme will rest with the Commission, who will be assisted in their task by the Advisory Programme Management Committee, on which Member-States will be represented. Normally, the contracting organisation will be expected to match the Community's financial contribution.