HL Deb 18 June 1975 vol 361 cc878-80

2.53 p.m.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is true that the Republic of South Africa has been granted access to the NATO defence equipment code and has been provided with military communications material from several NATO countries, including the United Kingdom.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the NATO codification system is an unclassified and completely open automatic data processing method for the identification and stock-numbering of equipment. It is used by a number of non-NATO countries, including South Africa.

As regards the provision of military communications material, I assume that my noble friend is referring to recent Press reports about Project Advocaat, which is a private industrial development by a German company for South Africa. So far as the United Kingdom's policy towards Southern Africa is concerned, I would refer to the Statement made in another place on 4th December 1974 by my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary.

Lord BROCKWAY

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Is it not the case that South Africa has purchased military communications equipment from several NATO countries and has used not only the NATO supply code but also NATO forms? And are not photographic copies of these documents in the hands of the United Nations Special Committee on Apartheid as well as in the hands of the anti-apartheid movement?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are not responsible for the purchasing policy of the South African Government. May I inform the House that the NATO codification system covers not only NATO countries but 11 other countries, including Japan and Australia.

Lord BROCKWAY

Yes, my Lords, but the Minister has not replied to my point that NATO forms were actually used. Is it not the case that, using these facilities, the Voerster Government has avoided the arms embargo of many countries, including the arms embargo of Britain, through a middleman? And is the Minister aware that photographic documents show that 16 items of equipment received in Pretoria in one month were manufactured in Britain contrary to the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, a NATO form is not a weapon. It is a piece of paper which is a guide to the way in which information is fed into a computer. As I have already said, it covers all NATO nations and 11 other nations as well. The policy of Her Majesty's Government is quite clear. We do not supply any weapons which are suitable for internal repression or for the enforcement of apartheid; but if some company in South Africa wishes to buy a spare part, it can look it up in what is an open document and order it, on the basis of a generally acknowledged code number.

Lord CHELWOOD

My Lords, was the decision to end the Simons-town Agreement taken on political grounds because it was felt that this would have an impact on the South African Government and perhaps make its domestic policies more liberal; or was it taken on military grounds because it was thought, for some curious reason, that the Simons-town Agreement had no important defence implications from Britain's point of view? In either event, was this question discussed and agreed with our NATO partners, who looked at this problem in January, and with our Community partners in the EEC?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, today I am answering a Question on the procurement of equipment. If the noble Lord wishes to put down a Question on another issue, he is free to do so.

Baroness GAITSKELL

My Lords, would it be true to say that science has got to the stage where it is practically possible for a woman to manufacture a nuclear bomb in her kitchen?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I believe it is true that an undergraduate in Princeton has done so; but not a woman in her kitchen!

Viscount MONCK

My Lords, it appears to me that this Question is connected with a leading article in the Guardian on 11th June in which there appears a very suspicious code word "MIOPCT". If NATO is giving "MIOPCT" to the South African Government, is the noble Lord aware of what they are giving?

Lord WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, since this code number appeared in a very clearly marked position in this particular article I had it checked and it means, in fact, minus 10 per cent.!