HL Deb 10 June 1975 vol 361 cc118-21

2.54 p.m.

Lord GARDINER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they expect to receive the report of the Supplementary Benefits Commission on the administration of the cohabitation rule.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I understand that the Commission hope to submit their report to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Social Services in the early autumn.

Lord GARDINER

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, though not very much, may I ask him whether it was not on 9th July 1974 that in a debate in this House there were criticisms in all parts of the House of the administration of the cohabitation rule by the Supplementary Benefits Commission? If there are answers to those criticisms should it not have taken a fortnight or perhaps a month, possibly two months or conceivably three months? As it is now practically three years, in courtesy to this House is it not really time for the Minister to tell us what the answers are?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I understood that the noble and learned Lord was referring to 1974, in which case it is less than a year ago. I do not want to quarrel with him on the question of time but he, like the Government, regards this as a very serious matter. The Commission has given a good deal of time to this; it has received direct evidence from some of the principal welfare groups in the field and interested people, and it is taking into account all the representations made and publications sent to it. It is important, as I think the noble and learned Lord will agree, that we have a comprehensive report on this vexed question.

Baroness SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, in view of the large number of unfortunate women who will be affected by this report, cannot my noble friend undertake to expedite its publication?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I have already raised this matter and, having regard to the wealth of material that the Commission has received and is considering, I do not think we can expedite matters further.

Baroness VICKERS

My Lords, in view of the fact that widows of police not only lose their benefits but also their widow's pension if they are considered to be cohabiting, may I ask the noble Lord to say when this situation is to be changed, too?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I think we must await the outcome of the report and I do not think I can at this stage add further to what I have already said.

Lord BYERS

My Lords, can the noble Lord indicate how frequently the Commission is sitting?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

I am sorry, my Lords, I cannot.

Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONE

My Lords, I understood the noble Lord to say that the report would be in the hands of his right honourable friend in the early autumn. Can we infer from that that shortly afterwards it will be in the hands of the House and the public? When will it be published?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, having regard to what has been said by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, by my noble and learned friend Lord Gardiner, and others, I will convey personally to the Secretary of State the feeling of this House that the report should be available at the earliest possible moment.

Baroness MACLEOD of BORVE

My Lords, would the noble Lord agree that if we had a debate in this House on the Report of the Finer Committee—which, as a former member of that Committee, I submit is long overdue—a great many of these problems would be revealed?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, the only comment I can make about this is that if such a debate is required, perhaps it could be arranged through the usual channels.

Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDE

My Lords, if the noble Lord is referring this matter of speed to the Secretary of State for Social Services, would he please let the House know what the Secretary of State says, because very often when information—often very important information—is conveyed this House would like to know what the result is? One never knows what the result is and sometimes we should like to know the result. Will the noble Lord therefore let us know what the Secretary of State intends to do as a result of today's discussion?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, there must be some machinery which governs this and presumably I can let your Lordships know if a Question is tabled.

Lord GARDINER

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether the relatively few points of criticism raised in this House are not fairly simple points, and is it very courteous to this House that no reply of any kind should have been made for something which is intended to go on for more than a year?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I will convey to my right honourable friend what my noble and learned friend has just said.