§ 4.5 p.m.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, SCOTTISH OFFICE (Lord Hughes)My Lords, with the permission of the House, I will repeat a Statement now being made by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Employment in another place. The Statement is in these words:
"With permission, Mr. Speaker, I will make a statement on the unemployment figures published today.
"The figures show that the total unemployed in Great Britain on 14th July was 1,036,000. This includes 92,000 students who will leave the unemployed register in the autumn and also 55,000 school leavers whose numbers we must expect to increase over the next month or two.
"Seasonally adjusted the total is 938,000. This represents an increase of 74,000 since June, which compares with an average rise of 47,000 over the three preceding months.
"The House will share my deep concern at these figures, and I have no wish to minimise their gravity. And we must face the fact that the level of unemployment is likely to continue upwards in the months ahead until the counter-inflation policy and other Government policies take effect and world trade begins to improve.
"One fundamental requirement before we can secure a substantial improvement is to bring down the domestic rate of inflation. Meanwhile the Government will take such measures as are open to us in our difficult economic situation to help those affected.
"We have already allocated £50 million to the Manpower Services Commission to strengthen training programmes, 452 improve the employment services and provide additional incentives for job mobility. These measures include provision to assist the training of an additional 30,000 people, bringing the total we aim to assist to nearly 100,000 in 1976.
"A further package of measures is now being worked out with the Manpower Services Commission and is being put into effect at once. This will make it possible for a further 6,000 young people to obtain skilled training this year and will provide for a strengthening of the Careers Service. The cost will be £10 million spread over this and the next financial year.
"We shall introduce our temporary employment subsidy scheme as soon as possible and I shall be announcing the details and starting date very shortly. We are also considering what further temporary measures might be possible to encourage the employment of young people in industry.
"These measures can help but, of course, I cannot pretend for a moment that the number of jobs maintained and provided by these means will alleviate substantially the tragic total published today.
"If we are to see these figures effectively reduced, we must secure the expansion of our economy as a whole and the fresh investment and confidence required for that purpose. The Government's anti-inflation policies are an essential part of that purpose."
My Lords, that completes the Statement.
The Earl of GOWRIEMy Lords, while we must be grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hughes, for repeating that Statement, this is very sad news even if most of us have been expecting it for some time. The certainty that things will get worse, as the noble Lord has promised, before they get better is sadder news still. One million unemployed would be bad news at any time and at the present, with inflation running at 26 per cent., with severe regional and structural difficulties, with overmanning and the under-utilisation of employment, including short-term working in many industries, as well as with the continuing world recession, we have little immediate ground for optimism, as the noble Lord 453 acknowledged. The world recession we cannot help, but it is tragic for those who are out of work and for those who expect to lose their jobs that the Government have delayed their attack on inflation for so long. If domestic inflation had been tackled in 1974, guarded optimism, rather than the deepest pessimism might now be on the cards.
I should like to ask the noble Lord the following questions. Is not now the time to drop those parts of the Government's programme which, whatever their merits, we can no longer afford? Is the noble Lord aware that, in the long run, unemployment is bound to increase as the value of money depreciates, as profits lose their real meaning, so that investment declines further, and as taxation bears no relation to profitability? Is the noble Lord further aware that if the Government resort to short-term palliatives in the form of increasing expenditure to make their counter-inflation policy stick, they will reduce their chances of getting rid of the inflation and, consequently, fail to improve the employment situation?
Finally, is the noble Lord aware that Parliament as a whole must play its part in the very difficult years that tie ahead; that somehow or other we have all got to explain to people that these figures are only the beginning, and that unless we combine severe control of expenditure and effective control of incomes, we shall be listening to another Statement this time next year, but with a figure of 2 million unemployed rather than 1 million?
§ Lord ROCHESTERMy Lords, we on these Benches also wish to thank the noble Lord for repeating this Statement. We, too, deplore the further increase in unemployment and the short-time working which is no doubt associated with it. Incidentally, I wonder whether the noble Lord can give us any figures as to the latest position regarding short-time working? We welcome the emphasis in the Statement on the importance of training and job mobility. From these Benches we have constantly asked for more to be done by way of creating new jobs and training people for them. We congratulate the Government on the new measures they are taking with the Manpower Services Commission in this connection, and we should like to encourage them to do more.
454 We have also noted the reference in the Statement—and we wish to welcome this, too—to the possibility of measures being taken to encourage the employment of young people in industry. In that connection, I should like to ask the noble Lord whether the Government will consider encouraging young people to take part in paid community service? We are realists, I think, in recognising, as did the noble Earl, Lord Gowrie, that the serious economic situation in which we now find ourselves is likely to get considerably worse before it gets better. In that connection—I believe there is some evidence from the Statement that the Government feel this—would the noble Lord agree that as the situation deteriorates it will be best that the Government should be as open as possible in seeking to lead and to unite the British people in regard both to the likely extent of reductions in the standard of living and to future employment prospects?
§ Lord HUGHESMy Lords, perhaps the noble Baroness will permit me to speak again at this stage, as it is customary for me now to reply to the speeches from the Front Benches. I am very grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Gowrie, and the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, for what they said. I must admit that I found the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, directed as they were largely to the positive parts of the Statement, more acceptable than the comments of the noble Earl, Lord Gowrie, although I do not for one moment suggest that the noble Earl was not entitled to make those comments. In view of the seriousness of the situation, it would be idle to pretend that it serves any useful purpose for us to be indulging in sheer Party points. The noble Earl need not raise his eyebrows—I was not suggesting that he was indulging in such points, as he will see from what I am about to say.
Obviously, as the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, said, there is need for the greatest degree of co-operation among all of us in Parliament in these circumstances. But I think it would be idle if I were to accept that the solution for any Government is that they should drop those parts 455 of their programme which they genuinely believe will contribute to employment and to improvement in industry merely because they are not acceptable to another part of Parliament. We must recognise that in some directions there are fundamental disagreements between us on the best methods of improving employment and industry. It certainly would not unite those who believe that this Government are right in their policies if we were to abandon important parts of these policies and to substitute for them no action at all, or, alternatively, policies which are acceptable to the Conservative Party. Therefore, we must, given the fact that there are differences of view, co-operate so far as we can, but that does not mean abandoning one set of views to another.
The Earl of COWRIEMy Lords. I am very grateful to the noble Lord for allowing me to interrupt him. I shall he brief. If he looks at my Statement and my questions when printed, he will see that I was concerned not with the acceptability of his Government's programme in this context, but with the expense.
§ Lord HUGHESBut, my Lords, in some of the action we have to take in order to improve employment prospects, expense is inevitable. Some of the things on which the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, complimented the Government consist of expenditure for the purpose of improving employment, of diminishing unemployment. Therefore we must in some degree just accept that we will differ on the value of expense in particular directions.
I now wish to deal with the specific points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Rochester. Yes, we attach special importance to providing employment for young people. We are considering the position in the light of the situation as it develops, as the summer school leavers come on to the labour market. To find the views on the best way of dealing with the situation, we shall be consulting the Manpower Services Commission, the Trades Union Congress, and the CBI. We are also following closely the policies adopted in a number of other EEC countries to alleviate the position of young people. So far as Community Industry is concerned, this specifically is one of the proposals we are considering.
456 The noble Lord also asked about short-time working. Reports reaching regional offices of the Department indicate that the number of people affected by short-time working has decreased to 145,000 from a peak of 250,000. However, I should not ask anyone to accept that that necessarily means that degree of improvement, because at this time of the year it it difficult to know the extent to which that particular part is obscured by the incidence of annual holidays. The noble Lord did not refer to redundancies, but this is governed by the same type of factors as the other matter. Although redundancies had reached a figure of 9,000 a week during June, the latest figures indicate a level of about 4,000 a week. We must wait a little longer to find out whether this is merely a temporary change brought about by the incidence of holidays.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, while regretting for all our sakes the sadness of the Statement which the noble Lord has had to make this afternoon, may I ask him whether a great deal more detail will be available in both Houses, so that the assessment of what is to be done in the future for the unemployed can be put in its proper perspective? May I, for example, ask whether the noble Lord can give us information on the training schemes for each area, as this is very important? Can he also say which industries will be covered by these schemes? I am sure that the noble Lord will agree that it is very important that the training should be allied to the pick-up which I hope will occur in industries all over the country.
Furthermore, can the noble Lord say whether it is intended to train more people in the Northern region to work in the fishing industry, having regard to the fact that it has already been announced that our new fish quay, which is so important to us, is not now to be put into operation because there is no money?
The noble Lord will understand when I say that it is very important from the point of view of the young, the middle-aged and indeed everybody else, that we should know in what industries in the future—so far as the noble Lord can see—there is to be more industrial production so that we get our training schemes right. This is very important. Can 457 the noble Lord also say whether more of the money that will be available for training will go to the areas where unemployment is highest rather than spreading it all round. The noble Lord will agree that it is very difficult in areas where there is the highest rate of unemployment. Although disagreeing with many of the noble Lord's policies, we wish him and his Government well in the schemes they are now going to try to put into operation to meet this very serious situation.
§ Lord HUGHESMy Lords, I am very grateful for the last part of the remarks by the noble Baroness because she seemed to indicate earlier that she did not like what I said last night. I hope, therefore, that she will like what I am now going to tell her. The £50 million budget measures include 7,000 apprentice awards mainly in engineering; 6,000 apprentice grants in construction; extra skill-centre training courses for 10,000 mainly young people; training scholarships for technologists and sandwich course students; higher training allowances; 500 extra staff for employment services agency; more generous payments under the employment transfer scheme to help geographical mobility. The new £10 million package includes 3,000 apprentice awards to provide first year off-the-job training for young people who would not otherwise get apprenticeships; 3,000 grants to stimulate on-the-job apprentice training grants to employers to encourage engagement of redundant apprentices and an extra 200 staff for the careers services. The noble Baroness will perhaps forgive me if I do not attempt to break that down on a geographical basis, but obviously the special areas and development areas will come particularly into these.
§ Lord LLOYD of KILGERRANMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is in a position to give a breakdown of these unhappy figures for Scotland and Wales?
§ Lord HUGHESMy Lords, I did ask for a breakdown for Scotland. I am sorry I cannot give a breakdown for Wales, and I admit that if the Welsh ones are like the Scottish ones he would probably prefer to wait a little longer to hear them. I can give the Scottish figures. The present figures are 129,800, compared to 101,600 in June and to 89,800 in July last year. Seasonally 458 adjusted, these figures are 112,100, 104,600 and 85,200. I have just been informed that the Welsh figures are 57,800, which is an increase of 4,200 over the figures of a month ago.
§ Lord LLOYD of KILGERRANMy Lords, I am very much obliged to the noble Lord.
Lord BRUCE of DONINGTONMy Lords, when my noble friend gives consideration to the admonitions and strictures that were passed upon the Statement by the noble Earl, Lord Gowrie, will he bear in mind that there are no agreed Opposition alternatives either in this House or in another place, to the policies being carried out by Her Majesty's Government?
§ Lord BESWICKThe noble Earl is not called upon to reply. The question was addressed to my noble friend. What I was going to suggest, however, is that we have been 19 minutes on this Statement, and as there is another one, it might well be advisable if we were to move on.
The Earl of GOWRIEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister two further questions? Will he do the House the courtesy of reminding his noble friend behind him of the points which he himself made as to not bringing in Party policies and differences on a matter of this gravity? Secondly, will not the noble Lord, Lord Hughes draw to the attention of his noble friend the fact that I and my colleagues in another place have said that a combination of effective wages control and effective control of Government expenditure is the only single policy for reducing the inflation which is creating this unemployment?
§ Lord HUGHESMy Lords, I appreciate the concern of the noble Earl at what my noble friend has said. I cannot agree with him that there is any single policy which will deal with this matter, and I would reiterate that we would best serve our country and Parliament in seeking those directions in which we can agree, but accepting that this does not mean that one side must swallow the policies of the other. They may have to thole them—if I may use a Scottish 459 expression—but they do not necessarily need to like them. That does not mean we must abandon our policies in favour of accepting those of the other side which we do not like. But given the differences which must go on from time to time there will be considerable areas in which we can work together and I hope we can concentrate on these.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord will allow me to continue with the Statement on Agriculture? We have had 21 minutes on the other Statement.
§ Lord BALFOUR of INCHRYEMy Lords, I am not a person who is obtrusive with questions; therefore I crave indulgence from the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, to ask the Minister this question. I am one of the few Members here who in Parliament has been through the tragedy of the 'thirties, and the point I want to ask him about is this. Apart from the industrial aspect there is the terrible degradation and sadness for those good men who are suddenly put out of work. Beyond training youth, the Government have a great responsibility for the adults. Would the Government consider the problems concerning those men in the way of finding occupation for them—athletics, literature, interests generally? Otherwise we will again have that terrible collection of men on street corners, which Members on all sides of the House would wish to avoid.
§ Lord HUGHESMy Lords, I appreciate, probably more than the noble Lord is aware, the value of what he has said. In the 1930s I had the unpleasant experience of being unemployed at a time when my father, for the first time in his life, was unemployed, and we knew the difficulty of living on the amount of money which the then National Government allowed to families of the unemployed, so I can speak from very bitter personal memories which the passage of the years has not erased. While I accept the value of what the noble Lord has said, to those who for the first time are suffering unemployment for a very long time, it would be misleading if we were to depart for a moment from the most important thing, which is to create jobs, to provide for passing the time of those who are unemployed. 460 I accept that this is something which is worth while, but the first priority must be given to maintaining employment and reducing as quickly as possible the numbers of unemployed.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, I have no wish to prevent anyone from speaking. There is a convention in this House, which the noble Earl, Lord Gowrie, might remember, that we are comparatively brief in dealing with Statements.