§ 3.31 p.m.
§ Lord SHEPHERDMy Lords, I beg to move, That an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty praying that Her Majesty will give direction that, to mark the Bicentennial celebrations of the United States of America, there will be made on behalf of Parliament to the Congress of the United States, as representative of the American people, a loan for one year of one of the two original copies of Magna Carta dated A.D. 1215 held by the British Library; that a permanent showcase be presented to the Congress for the display of the document; that the document be replaced at the end of the loan period by a replica; and that the presentation be made by representatives from both Houses of Parliament.
My Lords, the United Kingdom and the United States over the years owe much to each other. No one, I think, would question the proposition that this Parliament, as an act of friendship to the Congress of the United States, should offer something unique from our heritage 1355 to mark the Bicentennial celebrations. An original copy of the Magna Carta will be regarded by most who treasure democracy as most suitable, and I believe it will be highly appreciated by our friends in the United States.
If the House accepts this Motion, as I am sure it will wish to do, arrangements will be made for a delegation from both Houses to make the presentation and for an appropriate ceremony here to mark the occasion. We hope that this can be arranged early next summer. Preliminary discussions have been taking place through the usual channels as to what form the ceremony might take. Because of the value of Magna Carta, special arrangements will need to be made for its transport and security. In lieu of insurance, the Government have agreed to give a guarantee to the British Library that Parliamentary authority would be sought to make good any loss or damage within an upper limit of £1½ million.
In 1972, in response to an invitation from the former President of the United States for Britain to participate in the American Bicentennial celebrations, the then Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs set up a Committee under the chairmanship of Lord Lothian to recommend what form Britain's contribution should take. In addition to this gift, the Committee have proposed that Her Majesty's Government should make a gift of a bell to the American people to be hung in Philadelphia; support a number of manifestations in the Arts in the United States and institute, together with the Government of the United States, a joint programme of Fellowships in the creative and performed Arts.
I am sure the House will be in favour of proposals which illustrate the common heritage of this country and the United States and also look to our future friendly relationship. I therefore commend the Motion to the House in the expectation that it will be accepted as an expression of our friendship and good will to the Congress and the people of the United States of America on this very momentous occasion. My Lords, I beg to move.
Moved, That an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty praying that Her Majesty will give direction that, to 1356 mark the Bicentennial celebrations of the United States of America, there be made on behalf of Parliament to the Congress of the United States, as representative of the American people, a loan for one year of one of the two original copies of Magna Carta dated 1215 AD held by the British Library; that a permanent showcase be presented to the Congress for the display of the document; that the document be replaced at the end of the loan period by a replica; and that the presentation be made by representatives from both Houses of Parliament.—(Lord Shepherd.)
§ 3.35 p.m.
§ Lord CARRINGTONMy Lords, I do not think there will be anybody in the House who will wish to oppose the Motion moved by the noble Lord the Leader of the House. These proposals are imaginative, and I am particularly glad that a Committee on this whole matter is sitting under my noble friend Lord Lothian. If I may be permitted just one reflection, I am sure we are the only people in the world who would celebrate a considerable defeat by sending something we value 3,000 miles across the ocean; but I suppose we are none the worse for that.
§ Lord BYERSMy Lords, Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, I understand, took two or three minutes; I will try to emulate his brevity if not the quality of what he said. I think that Magna Carta, according to our standards, may be regarded as a rather limited document, but that would be the wrong way to approach the matter because it has become, very rightly, a symbolic document. And liberty, I believe, has to be redefined afresh by each generation. What is important to us about Magna Carta, and what I think our American cousins plainly value about it, is not its letter but its spirit. I need not say that that spirit is peculiarly close to the heart of the Party which I represent, and what we feel on an occasion such as this is the sense of enterprise shared with our American cousins.
I personally am delighted to be associated witht this Motion because I had the privilege of starting the exchange scholarship system from Westminster School in London, just near to this House, to Milton Academy, Massachusetts. It 1357 gives me a deep sense of satisfaction to know that the present American Ambassador started his career at that school in the year I left.
§ 3.37 p.m.
§ Lord HOUGHTON of SOWERBYMy Lords, with great deference to the American people, may we not ask a few questions about this auspicious occasion? What is the connection between Magna Carta and the Declaration of Independence of the American Colonies? Are we to have any reciprocal loan from the United States of any of their historic documents? If so, which could it be? Could we not look at a copy of the Declaration of Independence to remind us of one of the follies of our policies of 200 years ago? When I was Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster we had possession of some copies of Magna Carta which we loaned to the American people for a grand tour of the United States on another occasion. It was necessary to send custodians with these precious documents on the round of American cities to ensure their safety and, at the same time, to give the maximum coverage for the American people to have a look at the foundation of British liberty. What I am not sure about is why so soon after that occasion, which if my recollection is correct was the 950th anniversary of the signing of Magna Carta, do we have to send the same documents over there again. Have we nothing else to show them?
I ask these questions in the friendliest possible spirit, but I do not see why what should be a debate should be turned into a kind of illuminated address to the American people. Of course we have much in common with them. Of course we owe them a great deal. We are after all, as Bernard Shaw once said, two peoples divided by a common language; we do not always understand them and they certainly do not always understand us. Let us have amity and accord, and if this is going to set the seal on friendship between the British and the American peoples I am all in favour of it. If it is therefore a token of our regard and of our affection, I have no quarrel. But if any deeper significance is to be attached to this occasion, then 1358 I want to delve a little more closely into the history of the matter.
§ Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTONMy Lords, as my ancestor, the first Lord Mowbray as recognised by Parliament, was a grandson of one of the 25 Barons of Magna Carta whose statue is up above the Gallery, and as I am an Honorary Member of the Baronial Order of Magna Carta in the United States, I can only tell your Lordships that this proposed measure of Her Majesty's Government will be giving very great pleasure if it is acceded to.
§ The Earl of CROMARTIEMy Lords, without disagreeing in any way with anything any noble Lord has said, I should like to suggest that Magna Carta has absolutely nothing to do with an important part of the United Kingdom—Scotland. I suggest we also send to the United States a copy of the Declaration of Arbroath in 1326 to acknowledge that there are a lot of Scots in America.
§ Lord SHEPHERDMy Lords, we are well aware that there are many Scots in the United States. Some of us who attend debates in your Lordships' House way well wish that there could be a few more Scots in the United States! The Magna Carta is a document from which many of our Parliamentary liberties have sprung. This is a gift for that period by the British Parliament to the Congress of the United States. Any other document or anything else which is of significance may well be of interest to the United States, but I take the view, as do the noble Marquess, Lord Lothian, and other members of his Committee, that because of its special significance to Westminster, Magna Carta is the right document to send to Congress. For Congress is visited by many hundreds of thousands of people from all parts of the United States, and this would be a golden opportunity for them to see this particular document. My Lords, all gifts are open to question. I myself do not believe that this one will be open to question by the people of the United States.
On Question, Motion agreed to nemine dissentiente: Ordered, that the said Address to be presented to Her Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.