§ 2.35 p.m.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNE-SIDEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the Lord Bishop of Southwark's comment in this House on 2nd April 1968 on Mr. Ivor Cook's service in the Armed Forces, they will now publish in full his record of service.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I have been asked to reply. It is contrary to the practice of the Ministry of Defence to disclose information contained in the records of service of a member or former member of the Armed Forces without the individual's written consent.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNE-SIDEMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. But I have had the written consent, and in view of that fact, may I just say that Mr. Ivor Cook—
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNE-SIDEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that Mr. Ivor Cook had a most excellent Army record, that he started in the ranks, was finally released as an honorary Captain, and that he was mentioned in dispatches? May I also say—
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNE-SIDEMay I also ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that in my opinion the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Southwark was un-Christian in the statement he made in this House? I very much regret—if the noble Lord would take this from me—that despite the fact that I hold the permission, the full record 1252 cannot be put in Hansard, in order that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Southwark might know just how wrong and how un-Christian he was.
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I think I should intervene to say that the right reverend Prelate has informed my Office that he is quite unavoidably prevented from being here today, and I think that allegations about what he said ought to wait until he is present.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNE-SIDEMy Lords, would the noble Baroness mind repeating that, because I did not hear the latter part of what she said?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, as the right reverend Prelate is not able to be here today, I think that statements of the kind that the noble Baroness has made ought to wait until he is present here himself.
§ Lord CARRINGTONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness whether what she said is quite right? If my noble friend gave notice to the right reverend Prelate that she was to make these remarks it seems to me quite in order for her to go on asking the questions she has asked.
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, I do not know that it was clear that the noble Baroness had given the right reverend Prelate notice.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNE-SIDEIndeed, my Lords, I have had a most extraordinary correspondence with the right reverend Prelate, and perhaps the noble Baroness will be interested to know that we addressed each other in the third person.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, following upon that interesting exchange, may I make one point? The noble Baroness said that she has a letter from Captain Cook. If she will write to me giving me Captain Cook's consent, I will write to her giving the information based upon these non-medical records which are not the subject of Crown privilege, know the noble Baroness will agree that nor of the privilege provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. I 1253 the records of individuals should not be disclosed without their written consent.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNE-SIDEMy Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, but I have already said that I have the written consent. What is important, to my mind, is that in justice the record should be in Hansard.
§ Lord BYERSMy Lords, would it not be right for the noble Baroness to put down a Question for Written Answer, so that the whole House will know the truth of this matter, which goes back to 1968? Many of us were involved in the case of Court Lees.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, if the noble Baroness will show me the letter which she has, I will send her what I hope is a satisfactory reply.