§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what instructions have been given to the United Kingdom representative to the United Nations to deal with the situation created by the reported deficit of 87.5 million dollars to some extent due to the default of 72 Member countries in respect of their contributions to the United Nations.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE, FOREIGN and COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (Lord Goronwy-Roberts)My Lords, the United Kingdom representative to the United Nations is instructed to support any practical measures to liquidate the United Nations debt, to reduce the present high rate of increase in the United Nations budget and to press for an effective agreement on the budget and on expenditure on future peacekeeping operations.
Of the short term deficit of 87.5 million U.S. dollars, 57.9 million U.S. dollars represents contributions to the regular budget withheld by Member-States. The remainder relates to peacekeeping operations. Her Majesty's Government support the principle of collective responsibility and do not accept that such shortfalls should be made up by additional assessed contributions from other Members.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, arising out of that agreeably informative reply, in view of the fact that a regular contribution of 14 million dollars is made by this country, exemplary to a good many others, could the Minister indicate 774 what is the period of grace allowed to the non-payers before any action is taken to withdraw the right to vote?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, Article 19 of the Charter provides that where a Member-State falls short by the equivalent of two years' subscription of membership its position shall be considered with a view to withdrawing its right to vote. It is not always easy to decide that there are not special circumstances why a country withholds part of its contribution. For instance, some of the best payers may overshoot the financial year and, on paper at least, be in default in the ensuing year. So Article 19 has not so far been called into operation.
Lord JANNERMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether it is a fact that the main nations which have not contributed or are in debt are those nations which have been advocating the violation of the Charter and have been involved in such bare-faced violation, against Israel, for example? Is it not a fact that some of the civilised nations are withholding their payments because of that type of action on the part of these other Members? Can something be done at long last to try to put the United Nations on a proper, decent footing instead of the miserable state into which it has brought itself in consequence of these actions?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I do not think we would equate promptness of payment with purity of ideology, at least not in this case. On the other points raised by my noble friend, I can only say that generally we are in sympathy. We are constantly pressing for a better system of financing the United Nations, and any suggestions will be gratefully received, as, no doubt, will all contributions, large or small.
§ The Earl of LAUDERDALEMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what practical measures the United Kingdom delegate is invited to support? The noble Lord referred to "practical measures". Has he any in mind?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, there are a number of suggestions now being canvassed, among them the possibility of cutting down on the United Nations regular budget, particularly in 775 regard to the work of the Fourth Committee. That is an example of the kind of practical proposal I think the noble Earl has in mind.
§ Lord BLYTONMy Lords, does not the Minister consider that these deficiencies are chicken-feed compared to the losses, on the balance of payments, we are having to face in the Common Market, of nearly £3,000 million a year?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, we are all entitled to our own mathematics as we are to our own ideologies.
Lord JANNERMy Lords, may I follow up the answer that my noble friend gave me. Is this not a question of ideology? Is not the United Nations itself supposed to be based on the ideology of a civilised institution? In consequence of the fact that it is not carrying out that particular function and is dealing wrongly with Members of its own organisation, is it not essential, if one really wants to get the funds to support it, to see that it carries out its legal duties?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I would have said that the United Nations has an ideal bedeviled by ideologies.
§ Lord LEATHERLANDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that France has been heavily in default on several occasions in recent years? Can he tell us whether France is still in default?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the latest figures given to me indicate that this is so. I would not, however, wish to comment on the performances of individual Member-States in this field.
§ Lord BARNBYMy Lords, since the Minister made reference to the special peacekeeping forces, can he give this information to the House: Are the military aspects of peacekeeping expenses lumped in with the general budget, or are they kept in a separate category and financed through separate sources?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I appreciate the point raised by the noble Lord. The figures I gave 776 included something like 30 million US dollars accumulated deficit on the cost of peacekeeping operations, particularly those in 1957, on UNEF, and the 1960 Congo operation. It is true that, at least at that time, those expenses were borne on the regular budgets. I could not give the noble Lord the information as to whether the later peacekeeping operations were borne on the regular budget. I believe that they were, but if he will allow me to go into that particular point, I shall do so.
§ Lord GORE-BOOTHMy Lords, would the Minister agree that often when this subject is considered there is a great temptation to cut down on the peacekeeping budget, and that Governments should hesitate long before agreeing to that course since this is a quite basic object of the United Nations?
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, it is a basic and a primary objective to keep the peace.