HL Deb 01 July 1975 vol 362 cc92-4

2.43 p.m.

Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is a fact that the salary of the chairman of the Equal Opportunities Commission is to be £10,700, and if so how do the Government explain the contrast with the salary of approximately £16,500 paid to the chairman of the Royal Commission on the Distribution of Income and Wealth.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, the salary of the chairman of the Equal Opportunities Commission is £10,600. Other Home Office Boards which are considered to be of broadly comparable status are the Race Relations Board and the Community Relations Commission, both of whose chairmen are also paid a salary of £10,600. In determining the salary of the chairman of the Equal Opportunities Commission it was not especially relevant to draw a comparison with the salary payable to the chairman of the Royal Commission on the Distribution of Income and Wealth whose role and responsibilities are somewhat different.

Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGER

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that very unsatisfactory Answer, may I ask him whether or not the Royal Commission on the Distribution of Income and Wealth is a body of an advisory character, and whether or not the Equal Opportunities Commission has widespread executive powers affecting the great majority of the population of this country, and therefore has far wider responsibilities than either of the two Commissions he has mentioned? Will he explain the discrepancy in view of that fact? Can he also tell me what size of staff services the Royal Commission on Distribution of Income and Wealth and what size of staff is proposed for the Equal Opportunities Commission?

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, in determining the salaries of the chairmen of public boards, regard is had to salaries paid to chairmen of boards that are thought to be most nearly comparable in terms of responsibility and which are most apposite. For example, the chairman of the Royal Commission on the Distribution of Income and Wealth is paid a salary of £16,350 a year, and this is also the salary paid to the chairman of the Manpower Services Commission, the Director General of Free Trading and the chairman of the Monopolies and Mergers Commission and the chairman of the Price Commission. I am unable to answer the question as to the number of staff which will be at the disposal of either of the chairmen mentioned in the Question.

Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGER

My Lords, does not my noble friend think that these disparities between the Commissions he has mentioned and the Equal Opportunities Commission will be a very unfavourable initiation for a body which is responsible for equal opportunities for women, when equal pay is already on the Statute Book.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, I would hope not; but I would point out that the payment that is made to a chairman of a public board is determined by the Secretary of State of the Department which appoints the board, in consultation with the Minister responsible for the Civil Service. Great efforts are made to see that the salaries are comparable, but in the course of time certain inconsistencies creep in. My noble friend the Lord Privy Seal is at present considering the advisability of appointing an interdepartmental committee to consider the question of possible inconsistencies in these salaries.

Baroness SEEAR

My Lords, does not the Minister recognise that the chairman of the Equal Opportunities Commission will have to set up an organisation throughout the country and will, according to the documents we have, be responsible for some 400 staff? Although the noble Lord has told us that a comparison is being made with the salary of the chairman of the Community Relations Commission, is he aware that he has no responsibility for such an organisation throughout the country because the Community Relations organisation up and down the country is locally appointed and is locally controlled?

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, if these are the facts, then this is just the kind of situation which will be looked at by the proposed Committee.

Baroness SEEAR

My Lords, may I just say that it is unfortunate that this has not been looked at in advance?

Lord BLYTON

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the figures mentioned in the Question constitute an act of gross indecency, in the light of the fact that the Press, the media, the Tories and our Front Benches are arguing that the rate of increase for men working in production to maintain the economy of this country is too high? Here we are talking about fabulous salaries.

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, I have a great deal of sympathy with my noble friend.

Baroness MACLEOD of BORVE

My Lords, would the noble Lord agree that with the current terribly high rate of income tax, it does not really matter what anyone is paid as the Treasury takes most of it back anyway?

Lord HALE

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that it matters rather a lot in the terms of the feelings of those who are being appealed to to make no application for an increase in small incomes? In view of the fact that a Written Answer to a Question of my noble friend disclosed that the chairman is drawing threshold payments, may I ask the noble Lord how threshold payments accrued at an unprecedented rate to a new appointment, one which was made just about 12 months ago?

Lord JACQUES

My Lords, I have not mentioned threshold payments.

Lord DERWENT

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the first three Questions this afternoon took two minutes each and that this one has been going on for nearly six?

Lord MAELOR

My Lords, would my noble friend agree that there is a great disparity between the amounts paid to these people and the amount paid to Members of the House of Lords? Is it not high time that that discrepancy was rectified?