§ 2.45 p.m.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows :
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many vouchers they plan to issue to United Kingdom passport holders wishing to come to Britain under the special quota voucher scheme during 1975, and whether they will give a breakdown of the total into the numbers allocated to India, Kenya, Tanzania and other countries respectively.
§ The MINISTER of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Harris of Greenwich)My Lords, my right honourable friend announced in another place on 6th February that the rate of issue of special vouchers to United Kingdom passport holders would be increased this year from 3,500 to 5,000. It is not the practice to disclose the allocation to individual countries.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, while not accepting the justice of the policy of denying admission to the United Kingdom to our own passport holders, is the Minister aware that the advance from 1068 3,500 to 5,000 is at least a step in the right direction? May I ask him whether the argument against giving detailed figures was always that if the allocation was much too small to satisfy the requirements of the countries concerned, there might be disputes between them about the size of the allocation in relation to the total? So if he now thinks that 5,000 is an adequate figure, what conceivable reasons could there be for maintaining the confidentiality of this information?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, I appreciated the welcome—though it was a guarded welcome—given by the noble Lord to my right honour-able friend's Statement in another place. With regard to the second part of his question, this is a policy which has been pursued by the present Government as it was by their predecessors. There are obviously substantial problems about doing this, and that is why both Governments have taken the view that it is inappropriate to publish these figures.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, can the Minister inform the House whether he is in favour of the process of Africanisation which is going on in East African countries? Since we accept responsibility for United Kingdom passport holders coming into this country, what measures are the Government taking to protect those who have to remain there? No doubt the Government are aware of the considerable discrimination against Asians in East African countries, particularly in regard to housing and employment.
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, the present Government have many responsibilities, but the Africanisa-tion policy of governments in Africa is clearly not one of them. Undoubtedly, this policy has caused a considerable amount of hardship and that is why the present Government have taken this decision.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, the noble Lord said that the Government have no responsibility but surely they have a responsibility for protecting the interests of British subjects anywhere, whether or not they are in African countries and whether or not they are of Asian origin? 1069 Surely the noble Lord was a little un-guarded when he made that statement.
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, I should not have thought that I was unguarded at all. I suspect that this was similar to a line taken by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, when in Office. The position is that the United Kingdom Government have a responsibility to look after the interests of people holding United Kingdom passports. We are clearly not responsible for policies pursued by Governments in African countries. I should have thought the noble and learned Lord would have agreed with that.
§ Lord BROCKWAYMy Lords, while welcoming the Statement of the right honourable gentleman the Home Secretary, may I ask whether, in view of the statement by the right honourable gentleman the Home Secretary on 29th June about the unacceptability of sex discrimination in immigration laws, this decision means that women who hold British passports will be allowed to accept these vouchers to come to this country? Secondly, may I ask whether the dependants of voucher holders will be allowed to enter this country in a different manner from the present practice by which they have to go back to make a new application?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, the position on the latter point of the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, is that it is estimated that each of the special voucher holders has three dependants who are allowed into this country. On the first point raised by the noble Lord, I cannot answer his question offhand, but I shall look into the point.
§ Lord HALEMy Lords, would the noble Lord. Lord Harris of Greenwich, confirm that so far as Kenya is concerned, Mr. Kenyatta—who is facing a real problem—has leaned over backwards not to indulge in unnecessary discrimination, and has been under criticism from his own people? Is the noble Lord further aware that when Mr. Kenyatta dies a very considerable problem may arise there, whoever his successor may be?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, there are a number of problems 1070 facing passport holders in East Africa. It is not appropriate for me to distinguish between one country and another. There are grave problems facing the passport holders in East Africa ; certainly in Uganda that is the case. We shall do everything we can to assist them. That is why my right honourable friend has made this Statement.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, does the noble Lord recall that the exception to the rule that figures are never divulged for individual countries arose in the case of India, where under the previous allo-cation a special 500 were given to the United Kingdom passport holders formerly resident in East African coun-tries, who had gone there temporarily? Could the noble Lord at least tell me how many of the 5,000 referred to by the right honourable gentleman the Home Secretary last week are citizens in India?
§ Lord HARRIS of GREENWICHMy Lords, I have indicated that it is not the practice to disclose the allocation to individual countries. I am afraid that applies to India as elsewhere.