WASTE PAPER (Hansard, 5 February 1975)

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE, DEPARTMENT of ENVIRONMENT (Baroness Birk)
My Lords, because there is a temporary glut of waste paper, the Government cannot for the time being encourage 860 local authorities. The urgent need is to secure a stable market for paper that can be collected, and the Government's Advisory Group on Waste Paper Recycling are urgently considering ways of doing this. They are also considering how to increase the proportion of waste paper that can be used in paper manufacture. The waste paper salvaged by local authorities would, if imported as waste, cost about £10 million a year. An imported equivalent amount of wood pulp would cost approximately £30 million.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, following that Answer, may I ask my noble friend whether we are to understand that we continue to import vast quantities of paper at great cost when we have a vast amount of the material on our own doorstep? Is that the situation?

§ Baroness BIRK
No, my Lords, that is not the situation. The situation is that practically all the paper that is imported is paper of a higher quality; it cannot be made out of waste paper and therefore has to be imported.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, surely it is an astonishing situation that, because of some technical difficulty, we are allowing this vast amount of material to remain unused. Am I to understand that some of the local authorities are recalcitrant in this matter and are reluctant to do anything in the way of collection? Is that the case? If that is the position, will my noble friend tell her right honourable friend the Minister (if he happens to be a right honourable Minister) that provided the names of these local authorities are conveyed to me I will publish them and expose them?

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, regarding my noble friend's last point, this is not the fault of the local authorities at all, although there may be odd local authorities which are remiss in this matter. As I said in my Answer, due to a temporary glut, a great deal of paper that has been collected cannot for the moment be used. But both Government and industry are confident that there will be an upsurge in demand later this year and the paper will be needed. I can only repeat what I said in answer to a former supplementary question: the paper which is imported 861 is paper of a higher quality. In addition, research both by the Government and by industry is taking place to find ways of using waste paper for better quality paper and also for newsprint.

Viscount MONCK
My Lords, in support of the noble Baroness's statement that there is a glut of waste paper, may I say that towards the end of November last I received a letter from the merchants who collect our local waste, to the effect that the demand from paper and board mills had decreased. Four weeks later, I received another letter advising us that the situation had deteriorated further and that we should stop our collection. I think that that supports the noble Baroness's statement.

§ Baroness BIRK
Yes, that is quite right, my Lords. It was during 1974 that the situation deteriorated, and this was due to a world recession and to a decrease in demand in Europe for waste paper. But now, as I have said, we are hopeful that demand will be on the increase and that people will then be encouraged to start collecting again.

§ Lord POPPLEWELL
My Lords, will my noble friend please request her Secretary of State to consider the type of application for a rent rebate that I have in my hand? It contains two foolscap sheets of closely-typed questions, simply because somebody is asking for a rent rebate. Does this indicate a total lack of safeguarding our resources of paper? Will my noble friend have a word with her right honourable friend about reaching agreement with the local authorities to reduce considerably the type of document which I have produced in this House?

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, we are aware of what my noble friend said. Every attempt is made to try to reduce the consumption of paper in departments. The piece of paper my noble friend is referring to may be one that many people would in any event, like to see recycled. But I will take the point up.

§ Lord MERRIVALE
My Lords, will the noble Baroness agree that there is some difficulty for householders in towns and cities to separate waste paper, bottles and tins, with a view to meeting the point of the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell? If 862 the noble Baroness does not agree, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government have any suggestion as to how householders could be assisted in meeting the noble Lord's point?

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, we are very aware of this problem, and this is a difficulty at a time when there is a glut and many householders are trying to do their social duty in this connection. This is one of the points being considered urgently by the new Waste Management Advisory Council that has been set up; and I hope (although this is outside the scope of the Question) that eventually something will be done.

§ Lord CASTLE
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, whatever the difficulties of local authorities, private agencies on behalf of charities are still collecting waste paper and giving Green Shield stamps in return?

§ Baroness BIRK
Yes, my Lords, I am aware that voluntary organisations are collecting paper. Some of them have managed to make contracts with merchants or mills, but others have not and are left with the waste paper. I would be the last one to suppress any voluntary spirit, but I think it would be better for the voluntary organisations to understand that there is a temporary glut and that, perhaps, they should hold their horses and temper the amount of collection until the situation improves.

§ Lord LEATHERLAND
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that this is a matter in which I have taken a great interest for fifty or sixty years, and I have addressed your Lordships on this question on five or six occasions? Is she further aware that the essence of the problem has not yet been mentioned? Is she aware that the essence of the problem is that the paper mills are now holding huge stocks of material which they are not yet able to use, but which constitute a heavy drag upon their capital? Is my noble friend further aware that they are agitating for Government assistance to tide them over until this surplus stock can be put through the pulp mills? Is the noble Baroness therefore able to tell us whether the Government are giving consideration to this question which is the sole source of the present problem?

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, I am very well aware of my noble friend's interest in this matter. I am also aware of the discussions which are taking place between the Government and industry, although I think it is overplaying it a little to call it "agitating". Discussions are taking place on both sides. Industry realises the Government's financial problem so far as this matter is concerned. It is understood. The matter is well in hand and the Government's Advisory Group on Waste Paper is getting together to work on these very problems.

Lord INGLEWOOD
My Lords, may I inform the noble Baroness that there is nothing new in this answer from a Minister? My memory goes back 25 years and I have heard this said over and over again. Is it a question of a lack of capacity for handling waste paper, or is it a question of a lack of demand for the processed product? There is a demand for the collection of waste paper, but when people have collected it they are told that it is not wanted.

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, with respect, this is the first time that I have had to give this answer. Looking at the other times, I do not believe that the same answer has been given before, because the circumstances and reasons have been different. The answer is that there is a glut of paper, and at the moment there is a lack of demand for it. The purpose of the research which is now being done is to increase the capacity of the mills in order to extend the variety of paper which can be made out of waste paper.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, will my noble friend be kind enough to advise me about what I am now to do with the vast amount of paper that I receive every morning? Am I to put it in the dustbin, or am I still to put it aside for collection?

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, I should advise my noble friend to get in touch with his local authority in order to receive exact, practical local advice on the spot.

§ Lord ORR-EWING
My Lords, will the noble Baroness understand that there is tremendous good will all over the nation to try to reduce our import bill. Very large numbers of charitable organisations, as well as local authorities, have been conscientiously collecting waste paper. I had a recent case where the Boy Scouts had to pay somebody to have the waste paper taken away. It seems to be a crazy situation where our imports are so grossly out of balance. Will the Government now give some real sense of priority and urgency to settling this very difficult problem?

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, the Government are giving priority to it. That is what I hoped to convey—although, perhaps, I was not successful—throughout all the answers which I have given to the very interesting questions which have been raised.

§ Lord SLATER
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that she has done remarkably well in facing up to the many questions which have been asked on this subject? May we take it that the anti-litter campaign has been a failure, even though we have had tremendous advertising in regard to that campaign, and that the anti-litter Act which was passed by both Houses of Parliament has not been successful according to the terms out-lined here today?

§ Baroness BIRK
My Lords, since my noble friend was so kind in the first part of his supplementary question, I hate to have to tell him that the latter part of it is another matter and that I do not propose to answer it.

§ The LORD PRIVY SEAL (Lord Shepherd)
My Lords, may I politely suggest that we move to another Question? In view of the fact that we had one Question yesterday which lasted 12 minutes and that this Question has lasted 11 minutes, perhaps noble Lords might look at the length of the Questions which are put down for Answer to see whether they could not be shortened.