§ 2.52 p.m.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, I am afraid that my attention was diverted when the noble Baroness asked her Question. May I ask her whether she was addressing her question to me or whether she was asking the next Question on the Order Paper?
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, I was asking the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether an appropriate woman is to be appointed to serve on the inquiry on industrial democracy appointed by the right honourable Mr. Peter Shore.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I apologise for an excess of zeal. May I say that a message is going down from this House to the Secretary of State on the subject of the Green Howards band. My Lords, the Answer to the noble Baroness is that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State announced the composition of the Committee of Inquiry on Industrial Democracy on 3rd December. He does not intend to make any further appointments to the Committee.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, I do not need to thank the noble Lord for his Answer. In view of the fact that the Equal Opportunities 1328 Commission has recently been established by Her Majesty's Government and that an office, with a full staff, has been set up in Manchester, is the noble Lord aware that that Commission will have power to act against the discrimination against women? May I ask the noble Lord whether he will kindly convey to whoever has appointed the Commission the fact that it will look rather ridiculous if at the first opportunity that occurs the Equal Opportunities Commission proceed against their own Government? I shall enjoy it but the House may not.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I will indeed convey the views of the noble Baroness to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State. However, the position is that the people who were appointed to this Committee were chosen not for their sex but for their particular qualifications. These qualifications were in no way related to the fact that they happened to be men rather than women. They were professional qualifications rather than the other variety.
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, following that statement, may I ask whether the noble Lord does not believe that there is any woman in the country who has the qualifications to serve on a Committee of Inquiry on Industrial Democracy, a committee which is just as important to women as it is to men?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely correct. Women were not ignored. It just so happened that the outcome was that they were not either willing or able to be appointed. In fact, it is an unhappy accident that the total hand to be played is male.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, in view of the fact that women comprise nearly half the labour force in this country—
§ Several Noble Lords: Order, order!
Baroness SUMMER SKILLMy Lords, may I thank my noble friend. In view of the fact that women comprise nearly half the labour force in this country, is it not curious that the Government were 1329 unable to find one woman who was fitted and able to serve on this Committee?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I am afraid that I have to tell my noble friend that it is indeed curious, but that it is a fact.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, is not the Minister really ashamed, either for himself or for the Government? Is he aware that every time appointments are made—for example, in the case of British Airways and British Transport and now in the case of the committee that has been raised in her Question by the noble Baroness, Lady Ward of North Tyneside —we always get this kind of answer? If the Government are not to show an example, what on earth can be expected of industry? May I have an answer, please?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I thought that one of the end results of our decision to have equality of the sexes was that the statutory woman might die out—that in fact she might cease.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I am not thinking of the statutory woman? Members of boards should be at least 50 per cent. women.
§ Lord ERROLL of HALEMy Lords, is it not the case that no woman was prepared to serve on a Committee whose terms of reference were so dishonest and biased?
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, in view of the many questions which have been asked on this occasion by the female of the species, may I ask my noble friend whether he can tell the House what is an appropriate woman, so that when I return to the North I shall be able to tell my spouse what is an appropriate woman and whether she fits into that category?
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, perhaps I might call myself an appropriate woman, because at the moment I am wearing the cap of the Chief Whip, and say that as we have taken nearly half an hour on Questions we ought really to proceed to the next business of the House.
§ Lord GARDINERMy Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that there 1330 is a large number of noble Lords who wish to put additional questions on this important matter? May I ask my noble friend whether or not it is a fact that the large majority of those employed part-time are women? Therefore, is it not desirable that somebody with experience of part-time work should be on the Committee?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, my noble and learned friend may indeed be right but my right honourable friend the Secretary of State does not intend to make any further appointments to the Committee. It may be undesirable but that is the state of play.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, since my noble friend has referred to the statutory woman, may I ask what is the logic that leads the Government to replace the statutory woman, which means perhaps one woman, by six men?
Baroness WARD of NORTH TYNESIDEMy Lords, the noble Lord has spoken about the appropriate woman, but there ought also to be appropriate men on such committees, and sometimes there are not. The noble Lord may be interested to know that I am not a member of "Women's Lib".
§ Baroness LLEWELYN-DAVIES of HASTOEMy Lords, thank goodness that quite often there are appropriate men in all spheres of life!