Lord BRUCE of DONINGTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state, as at the latest date for which figures are available, the total amount of the United Kingdom National Debt and whether, as a positive contribution towards informed public discussion as to the merits or otherwise of Scottish and Welsh separatism, they will indicate the approximate share of the National Debt attributable to Scotland and Wales respectively and the annual cost, in each case, of servicing these shares.
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, the total outstanding United Kingdom National Debt on 31st March 1975 was £45,925 million. The Government firmly reject separatism for Scotland and Wales. The question of apportioning shares of the National Debt to Scotland and Wales does not therefore arise. The National Debt will continue to be serviced as a whole from United Kingdom resources as part of the management of the single United Kingdom economy.
Lord BRUCE of DONINGTONMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that his Answer means that it is quite impracticable to divide the assets or liabilities of the nation as a whole according to some preconceived geographical basis?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, it is quite impossible to allocate the National Debt between countries on the basis of the relevant benefit from the expenditure which gave rise to it.
Lord HAWKEMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell us what was the size of the Debt in the previous year, and in the year before that? What is the current cost of servicing that Debt?
§ Lord JACQUESYes, my Lords; we can tell the noble Lord that. Let us work in thousands of millions. As I have said in 1975 it was £45 thousand million, in 1974 it was £40 thousand million, and in 1973 it was £36 thousand million. If the noble Lord wishes I can go back to 1964.
Lord HAWKEMy Lords, can the noble Lord give us the other figure for which I asked that is, the cost of servicing this appalling weight of debt?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, I have no information available on the cost of servicing the debt, but if the noble Lord would care to put down a Question on that matter would hope to be able to answer it.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, in the light of my noble friend's first reply, when he made reference to separation, may I ask him whether he is aware that, if devolution takes place as between this country and Scotland and Wales, it can lead only to separation? If such devolution takes place, is it not right that further consideration should be given to the order of devolution so as to provide for the removal of some payment from the capital debt that these nations have to bear?
§ Lord JACQUESMy Lords, there are two answers to that question. First, the Government completely reject the proposition that the devolution that is outlined in the White Paper will inevitably lead to separation. I am afraid I have forgotten what the second answer is. Having forgotten it, I will leave it.