§ 4.3 p.m.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, with permission, I will now repeat a Statement being made in the other place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Industry. The Statement is as follows:
"Following his Interim Report of 4th February on the proposed closures of steelworks by the British Steel Corporation, my right honourable and noble friend Lord Beswick has now completed his review of the proposed closures in Scotland.
1682 "His Report was made available to Members of the House this morning and will he printed in the Official Report.
"The Government have accepted his recommendations. This leaves outstanding only the proposed closures at Shotton, and of the Hartlepool and Consett plate mills. We have not yet reached a conclusion on Shotton.
"In the case of the plate mills, my right honourable and noble friend is awaiting the outcome of discussions between the BSC and the workforces about alternative proposals which would preserve the future of these mills.
"The Government accept that the Scottish plants using the obsolescent open hearth process should close once 1683 alternative supplies of steel become available from modern and more efficient plants in Scotland. Ravenscraig is already being expanded as a bulk producer.
"The BSC now propose to build electric are plants at Hunterston and at Ravenscraig and to increase the capacity at Hallside. This will bring their capacity in Scotland to 4.2 million tonnes a year, perhaps more, a major step towards their target of 4½ million tonnes a year capacity by the early 1980s.
"With the closure of the open hearth plants there is no alternative to the eventual closure of the Clyde Iron Works and certain primary and product mills. The Clyde Iron Works closure will be no earlier than 1980. But the BSC propose to build at Hunterston two direct reduction units for making iron.
"Following the review, BSC now propose to maintain into the 1980s the special steels facility in Scotland represented by the Hallside and Craigneak mills about which there has been much concern. This will save 1,250 jobs. BSC propose to develop and expand the Craigneuk steel foundry. For this to be a success, the operations at Toll-cross will have to be transferred to Craigneuk but the BSC will give preference to the workers at Tollcross in filling the 300 new jobs at Craigneuk.
"The BSC also propose to expand their capacity in Scotland for producing threaded pipe for oil and gas well casing. This latter proposal will give a net gain of 450 jobs.
"The previous Administration's White Paper of February 1973 on the BSC's 10 year Development Strategy said there would be a net loss of 6,500 job opportunities in Scotland over the period. The changes I have outlined will cut this figure to 2,100 and some of these are deferred.
"This is, of course, still serious given the general employment situation in West Central Scotland and the Government will strengthen their attack on the industrial and environmental problems there the Scottish Development Agency will play an important role.
1684 "The Cambuslang project announced by my right honourable friend on 30th June is a good example of the co-operation between the Government, the local authorities and the BSC. A determined effort will be made to attract new industry.
"As a result of this review, I believe that the Scottish steel industry will be more balanced and eventually emerge stronger and more competitive and so contribute to the British economy."
§ My Lords, that ends the Statement.
§ Following is the Report referred to:
§ "My Interim Report on the review of the British Steel Corporation's proposed closures of steel plants was published on 4 February The Report noted that I still had to complete my review of the proposed closures in Scotland and of the closures of the Hartlepool and Consett plate mills consequential on the BSC's proposal to build a new plate mill at Redcar, considered also that further study was needed of the economics of modernised steelmaking at Shotton and its implications for BSC's proposals elsewhere.
§ 2. "I have now completed the review of the proposed closures in Scotland and my conclusions are being announced immediately so as to reduce the present uncertainty. Consideration of the proposed closures at Shotton is not covered here. Consideration of the closures of the Hartlepool and Consett plate mills, which are associated with the proposed plate mill at Redcar, is awaiting completion of the discussions between the BSC and the work forces at Hartlepool and Consett on alternative proposals which would preserve the future of their mills.
§ 3. "I first visited all the plants concerned in Scotland to get a feel of the situation. I then held formal tripartite discussions with the BSC and the TUC Steel Committee. I have also had several meetings with the Scottish TUC, including one during the Prime Minister's visit to Glasgow on 27 February and I have met the constituency MPs affected. As elsewhere I have been immensely impressed by the positive and constructive attitude of management, trade unions and workers at all levels. The Minister of State, Scottish Office, has been closely involved at all stages and agrees with my recommendations.
§ 4. "Because of the close intercommunication which exists between the Corporation's plants in Scotland, I have had to consider not only the individual closure proposals but also how those proposals or variants on them would affect the Corporation's wider plans for developments in Scotitsh steelmaking. Arising from my review, the Corporation have revised their proposals for closures and have come forward with fresh proposals for new investment. I welcome these changes and recommend their acceptance. I deal first with the proposed closures. A table showing the number of jobs involved and summarising the recommendations is annexed.
1685§ ORE HANDLING
§ General Terminus Quay
§ 5. "I recommend that the closure should be confirmed in view of the development of the much larger and more efficient Hunterston ore terminal.
§ IRONMAKING
§ Clyde Iron
§ 6. "There is in my view no alternative to the ultimate closure of the Clyde Iron works once the open hearth furnaces (see paras. 7–8 below) have closed and adequate new supplies of iron are available in Scotland. The BSC have agreed that the final closure date will not be before 1 January 1980 and they will ensure that the closure is managed in an orderly way so as to maximise the opportunities for the employees affected to obtain alternative jobs. The eventual closure will also facilitate the Government's plans for general industrial development in the Cambuslang recovery area, inter alia, by removing a source of pollution.
§ OPEN HEARTH STEELMAKING
§ 6. "I have concluded that the BSC have made out their case for closing open hearth steelmaking at Clydebridge, Dalzell, Lanarkshire, Ravenscraig and Glengarnock once alternative supplies of steel for the related product mills have become available from more modern and efficient plant in the area. The submerged injection process as proposed by the workers at Clydebridge would not improve the economics of the open hearth process sufficient to justify its retention there.
§ 8. "However, following the review, the BSC propose to close these works later than originally intended. The position is as follows:
| Date initially proposed for closure | Deferred date now proposed | |
| Clydebridge | 1976–77 | July 1977–January 1978 |
| Dalzell | 1976–77 | July 1977–January 1978 |
| Ravenscraig | 1977–78 | July 1977–January 1978 |
| Lanarkshire | 1977 or earlier | July 1977–January 1978 |
| Glengarnock | Not before 1978–79 | Not before 1st January 1980 |
§ PRIMARY ROLLING
§ 9. "I consider that the BSC have made out their case for the closure of the Clydebridge slabbing mill in view of the proposed installation of a third slab caster at Ravenscraig. 1686 Similarly, primary rolling at Glengarnock will have to cease once blooms are available from new capacity elsewhere.
§ PRODUCT MILLS
§ 10. "I accept that the Dalzell light section mill and bar mill will have to close with the closure of the Dalzell open hearth plant, i.e., in the period July 1977/January 1978.
§ Hall Side Billet Mill/Craigneuk Bar Mill
§ 11 "I have been impressed by the arguments advanced by local MPs, local authorities, trade unions and the workers themselves for the retention of these "special steel" facilities which the BSC had proposed to close in 1976/77. The BSC have reconsidered their position and now propose to keep these mills in operation into the 1980s. The Corporation will undertake the necessary capital expenditure (estimated roughly at £1 million) to secure the best performance from these mills, obsolescent as they are in some respect. The BSC have also undertaken to increase the capacity of the electric are furnace at Hallside to about 250,000 tonnes a year so as to maintain supplies from the Hallside billet mill to the Craigneuk bar mills as well as steel for other mills in Scotland as desired. All this will retain an identifiable special steel facility in Scotland into the 1980s.
§ FOUNDRIES
§ Hamilton
§ 12. "Following my discussions, the BSC are reviewing the potential market for the products of this small iron foundry. Therefore, the closure of the foundry should not be confirmed now. When their review of the market is completed, the Corporation will discuss the future of the foundry with the Unions through the normal procedures.
§ Tollcross
§ 13. "I welcome the BSC's proposals for the redevelopment and expansion of the Craigneuk steel foundry; this is in line with the Government's policy for the ferrous foundry industries as incorporated in the new scheme for financial assistance under Section 8 of the Industry Act 1972 (for which the BSC will be eligible). For the new investment at Craigneuk to succeed, I have found no alternative to BSC's proposal to concentrate the Craigneuk and Tollcross operations on the Craigneuk site. I recommend therefore that the closure of the Tollcross steel foundry be confirmed. The Corporation have undertaken that, in recruiting for the new 300 job opportunities arising from the development at Craigneuk, preference will be given to the workers from Tolcross, half of whom live between Tollcross and Craigneuk which are less than 10 miles apart. This will, inter alia, retain within the Corporation people with the special skills of foundry work.
§ NEW INVESTMENT PROPOSALS
§ Direct Reduction Plants at Hunterston
§ 14. "Following the announcement last year of the Corporation's intention to build a plant at Hunterston for the manufacture of iron by the direct reduction process, the Corporation 1687 have now decided to proceed with the construction of two 400,000 tonne units there; the total investment in both plants is estimated at £55 million (at current prices), providing about 150 jobs from 1978; priority in filling these jobs will be given to workers becoming redundant from steel plans affected by closure.
§ NEW STEELMAKING PLANT
§ 15. "The Corporation, like the Government, are committed to a target of 41 million tonnes of steel capacity in Scotland by the early 1980s, including up to a million tonnes of new electric are capacity. I have carefully considered the many representations made to me that 3.2 million tonnes is too optimistic a target for output from the expanded plant at Ravenscraig. I am very conscious of the need for new plant in Britain to match up to the efficiency of similar plant overseas if we are to have an internationally competitive steel industry in the 1980s; there is a responsibility on both management and workers to cooperate in achieving this. However, whilst the Corporation must continue to aim at an output of 3.2 million tonnes at Ravenscraig, it would be more prudent to use a figure of 3 million tonnes when assessing supplies to the product mills in Scotland.
§ 16. "The Corporation have not hitherto determined where they wish to locate new electric are capacity and various sites for this were suggested to me by MPs, local authorities and workers' representatives as a way of mitigating the social effects of the proposed closures and of providing a more secure supply of steel for Scottish product mills. I have discussed these proposals with the Corporation. The Corporation now propose to build an electric are plant at Hunterston of about 250.000 tonnes capacity which will produce continuously cast blooms for rolling at Glengarnock. This would, inter alia, provide evidence of their intention progressively to develop the Hunterston site. The closure of the open hearth furnaces and primary rolling at Glengarnock will be phased to the availability of steel from Hunterston. The cost of the new electric are and continuous casting plants is estimated at £35–40 million at current prices, providing about 280 new jobs.
§ 17. "The Corporation are also prepared to uprate the capacity of the electric are furnace at Hallside from 150,000 tonnes to about 250,000 tonnes at a cost of to £2 million (see para. 11 above).
§ 18."I also concluded that there are good reasons for constructing a new electric are plant in the Motherwell area inter alia to help offset the social effects of the closures of the open hearth furnaces. Following our discussions, the Corporation propose to build a new electric are plant of about 250.000 tonnes capacity at Ravenscraig. They consider this the most suitable site in the Motherwell areas as the plant would be well integrated with other facilities at Ravenscraig and would still have ready access to the Dalzell and Lanarkshire product mills. The cost of this plant is estimated at up to £20 million and it should provide an additional 50 jobs in the Motherwell area.
1688§ 19. "These developments will provide an additional 600,000 tonnes of electric are capacity in Scotland, bringing BSC's steel capacity in Scotland to 4.2 million tonnes, easily maintaining the Scottish share of BSC's steel production in the United Kingdom. I have agreed with the Corporation that it is premature to consider at this stage where the balance of electric are capacity in Scotland should be sited. This can best be examined in the light of production and market developments over the next few years.
§ PIPE PRODUCTION
§ 20. "The Corporation propose to expand their capacity for producing threaded pipe for the casing of oil and gas wells by new investment of £25 million at Clydesdale works near Motherwell and at Imperial Works in Coat-bridge. This will provide 550 new job opportunities at Imperial but a reduction of about 100 job opportunities at Clydesdale, ie a net gain of about 450 jobs. It will yield a better balanced and more economic operation and will enable the Corporation to continue to supply the major proportion of the North Sea market for casing.
§ EFFECT ON JOBS
§ 21. "The White Paper of February 1973 on BSC's 10 year Development Strategy gave a net reducation of about 6,500 jobs in Scotland over the period of the strategy. The Corporation subsequently predicted a gross loss in job opportunities (including Clyde Iron and Glengarnock open hearths) of about 7.000 to be partially offset by 2.400 new job opportunities, giving a net job loss of about 4,600. My recommendations would result in the saving of 1,350 jobs and the deferment of most of the remaining job losses by 1 or 2 years. The Corporation's proposals for new investment provide for 3,525 new jobs, thereby reducing the net job loss to about 2,100.
§ 22. "These losses are inevitable if we are to phase out obsolescent processes for steelmaking and provide a modern and thriving steel industry in Scotland giving secure employment to those remaining in the industry. The success of that industry will hinge on its ability to supply steel to using industries both at home and abroad, at internationally competitive prices and qualities. This in turn will require steel plants—whether already in existence, now being built or newly planned following the review—to be run in accordance with international standards of operational practice and manning; otherwise the prospects for British steel, including Scottish steel, remaining competitive in the 1980s may be grim.
§ ALTERNATIVE EMPLOYMENT
§ 23. "As noted in my Interim Report (paragraph 16), it is the policy of the Government to ensure that everything possible is done to provide alternative employment in areas affected by closures. During my visits to plants in Scotland proposed for closure, I assured the workers concerned that certainly no less would be done for them than we undertook to do in the case of closures in England and Wales confirmed in my Interim Report. However, it is difficult to provide for alternative employment while uncertainty exists 1689 as to whether a closure will take place and if so, when.
§ 24. "The redundancies in the steel industry must be taken in the context of the general employment situation in West Central Scotland. The Government's efforts, therefore, must be directed at maintaining and enhancing the attack on the industrial and environmental problems of the region as a whole. The areas affected by the steel closures are all closely linked and all, with the exception of Glengarnock, within the Scottish Special Development Area. The full range of regional policies is already brought to bear to attract new employment. There has been some success in the past—between 1959 and 1973, mobile
| ANNEX | |||
| Proposed Closure | Number of Lost Job Opportunities | Original Date of Closure | Recommendation |
| General Terminus Quay | 60 | 1974–75 | BSC proposal agreed. |
| Clyde Iron Works | 1,220 | 1978–79 or later | Closure deferred until 1st January 1980 at earliest. |
| Clydebridge (OH Furnace, Primary Mill). | 1,000 | 1976–77 | Closure deferred until July 1977–January 1978. |
| Dalzell (OH Furnace, Primary/Bar and Section Mills). | 1,030 | 1976–77 | Closure deferred until July 1977–January 1978. |
| Lanarkshire (OH) | 390 | 1977 or earlier | Closure not until July 1977–January 1978. |
| Ravenscraig (OH) | 460 | 1977–78 | Closure during July 1977–January 1978. |
| Hallside (Primary and Billet Mills). | 450 | 1976–77 | Plant to be retained into 1980s. |
| Craigneuk (Bar Mills) | 800 | 1976–77 | Plant to be retained into 1980s. |
| Clydesdale (OH) | 600 | 1975–76 | BSC proposal agreed; already replaced by new electric arc. |
| Glengarnock (OH Furnace and Blooming Mill). | 530 | 1978–79 or later | Closure deferred until not before 1st January 1980, dependent on steel from Hunterston electric arc. |
| Tollcross (Foundry) | 350 | 1975–76 | BSC proposal agreed because of expansion of Craigneuk and job availability there. |
| Hamilton Foundry | 100 | 1977–78 | Closure not confirmed pending outcome of market survey. |
| Number of lost job opportunities as initially proposed | 6,990 |
| Less Hallside/Craigneuk Mills and Hamilton Foundry | 1,350 |
| Number of lost job opportunities now agreed | 5,640 |
| New Investments | New Job Opportunities |
| Hunterston— | |
| Ore Terminal | 190 |
| Direct Reduction Plants | 150 |
| Electric Arc | 280 |
| Hallside Electric Arc Expansion | Negligible |
| Ravenscraig— | |
| BOS Expansion | 1,500 |
| Electric Arc | 50 |
| Clydesdale Electric Arc | 400 |
| Clydesdale/Imperial Tubes | 450 (net) |
| Dalzell— | |
| Plate Mill | 100 |
| Beam Welding | 105 |
| Craigneuk—Foundry | 300 |
| Total | 3,525 |
| Therefore, net job losses = 5,640 less 3,525 | |
| = 2,115 |
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, may I thank the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, for repeating the Statement made in another place? We have been 1690 industry created some 35,000 new jobs in Scotland; nearly 8,000 further jobs are in prospect. The slowing down in the creation of new employment recently has been largely due to the general economic situation.
25. "BSC is already pursuing a number of policies aimed at attracting new industry to the area. The Cambuslang project, announced on the Minister of State at the Scottish Office on 30 June provides a good example of cooperation between Government, local authorities and BSC. A determined effort will be made to attract new industry to this site in conjunction with land reclamation and the development of new factories by the Scottish Development Agency once it is established.
waiting for such a Statement on Scotland, having heard one on England and Wales some months ago. Is the noble Lord answer that we on this Bench recognise 1691 that modernisation and some closures are necessary if the steel industry is to be competitive, and that, in steel, modernisation usually means fewer jobs though production capacity may be increased? In particular, is the noble Lord aware that to retain the obsolescent open hearth furnaces indefinitely would be against the longer term interests of the industry in Scotland. Do the Government none the less agree that the consequent redundancies will be more difficult to cater for in the coming months when unemployment generally is, unfortunately, expected to be very high?
With his mention of a 4½ million tonnes capacity a year in Scotland, can the noble Lord confirm that it is still the intention that the production capacity of the steel industry in Scotland should be increased by about 25 per cent. in the current 10 year plan, as was decided over two years ago? Is the noble Lord also aware that I welcome the confirmation that the contemplated developments at Hunterston are to go ahead, especially as this follows a difficult planning decision which noble Lords from Scotland will particularly remember I had to take for that area, which was the subject of considerable controversy at the time. As regards Shotton, we recognise that this is a difficult decision and we have sympathy with the noble Lord, who is personally carrying out this survey, in having to take such difficult decisions. However, can the noble Lord indicate when the announcement concerning Shotton is likely to be made?
§ Lord ROCHESTERMy Lords, we on these Benches should also like to thank the Minister for having repeated the Statement. One or two of the decisions to which the Statement refers must have been painful for the Government, remembering the high unemployment in Scotland to which the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, has already referred. Nevertheless, we support the Government in the action which they contemplate, because it shows recognitioin that the interests of the steelworkers themselves are likely to be best served in future by employment which is productive and investment which is profitable. Like the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, we, too, sympathise with the Government 1692 regarding the dilemma in which they find themselves over Shotton. There is a working community there with wonderful traditions dating back to the time of John Summers, and it is right that before a decision is finally taken, and before that very fine working community is broken up, there should be very careful consideration.
There are two questions which I should like to ask the Minister. First, does the policy in this Statement represent an agreed policy between the Government and the British Steel Corporation? To the extent that it does not, is the Minister prepared to tell us anything about the views of the Corporation in the matter? The second question does not arise directly out of the Statement, but it is perhaps relevant to it. Various estimates have been made as to the likely loss of the Corporation in the current financial year. Can the Minister give any authoritative estimate as to the extent of the likely loss? For the rest, we would simply like to encourage the Government once more in spending such money as is available in trying to find new jobs and to train the displaced steelworkers for those new jobs, rather than spending money, as we see it, in an unprofitable way in, for example, further nationalisation measures.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, and the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, for the way in which they have received this Statement. As they were kind enough to say, compiling the Statement was not altogether an easy task. The noble Lord, Lord Campbell, is absolutely right: modernisation means fewer jobs, mostly, but this is not a great consolation to the man who loses his own job. It will be difficult in the coming months to find alternative work. But if the noble Lord will look at the details of the closure dates, he will find that in all cases there will not be redundancies in the coming months arising from this review. I hope that with the upturn in trade next year it will be rather less difficult than at the present time.
I confirm that the plan is that there will be an increase of productive capacity in Scotland of 25 per cent. or a little more. It is also true, as I have said 1693 and as the noble Lord himself has indicated, that Hunterston will go ahead in the next phase, the next 10-year strategy. What I have said about the direct reduction plants, the ore terminal and the are furnace is an indication that Hunterston will be one of the most modern complexes in Europe when it is completed. As for Shotton, I am grateful to both noble Lords for the understanding which they show. I agree with what was said by the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, that here we have a community with an absolutely splendid record. It would be a terrible thing to break into their productivity unless there were absolutely overriding considerations. This is bound up, of course, with development in other parts of Wales, and it is that other development that is causing a slight further delay. But I hope that a decision will be taken within the next two or three months.
I was asked about the agreement or otherwise of the BSC to what we have put forward in this Report. The BSC would, no doubt, in certain particulars have done things differently, but everything there has the Corporation's agreement. I saw the Scottish steelworkers at a meeting this morning, and although, obviously, there were some men, who face the loss of jobs who expressed disappointment, overall I was thanked for what had been done, and there was general agreement. The retraining programme is something about which the BSC feels very strongly, and certainly the Government will co-operate with the Corporation to the maximum in ensuring that there are new jobs for these men who are displaced.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, I wish to refer to what my noble friend said in the course of his Statement and in replying to the two noble Lords representing the two other Parties. So far as the Northern region is concerned, this is a very sad day, particularly for the Hartlepools. The new South-East Durham Steelworks were erected only a few years ago, in an area which I had the privilege of representing in the other place for so many years. That new plant cost a lost of money and provided employment in an area—the Hartlepools—which had been subject to neglect for so many years, and which was in close proximity to the area which was represented by my noble friend Lord 1694 Shinwell. I am sure that had he been here he would have had a comment to make about this. My noble friend Lord Beswick has been in the area, and I saw on television that he had visited the works. Now he has come back with this Report—
§ Lord SLATERWhat I have to say arises from my noble friend's Statement. I hope that noble Lords will be patient for just a moment and let me develop my argument in regard to the situation. What about Consett? Consett, with a modern plant, has been in existence for quite a long time. There has been development there and it covers a very extensive area. Village after village in the Consett area will be severely hit by the action which the Government are taking in Consett, and in the Hartlepools. Those are the two specific places to which I wish to refer. I feel that on this issue the Minister for the Environment, if he is responsible, or the Minister for Technology, if he is responsible, has taken the wrong line of approach, and many people will be placed on the dole.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, possibly my noble friend might read the Report and he will see that the points he made are not really relevant to what I said. It is true that there are to be some changes in the North-East. There are great developments taking place on the North-East coast—
§ Lord SLATERWhere?
§ Lord BESWICKIn Redcar. In the case of Hartlepool, Consett and Redcar, discussions are now taking place between the workers and the BSC about the best siting for the new plate mills. A decision on that has not yet been reached, and I am waiting for proposals to be put before me.
§ Lord WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, I congratulate my noble friend the Minister on the enormous efforts he has made in this matter—very often with great success. I wish to ask him this question. Is it always wise to close down the smaller concerns within the British Steel Corporation, on the grounds of ultimate efficiency? I should like to call my noble friend's attention to what has been done elsewhere. If we have only those concerns which at the moment are of perfect and 1695 absolute efficiency, there is nothing to fall back upon in times of great demand for steel. Furthermore, if everything is kept at exactly the same level there is no possibility of advancement, either. Would my noble friend not agree that it should be an important part of the policy of the British Steel Corporation both to continue in operation such places as Shotton, and to allow certain expansion of plants which are quite uneconomical and are beyond the range of immediate technology, but which would be of benefit in the future?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, the argument about the small plant against the big plant is one with which I am familiar, and on occasion I have advanced the claims of the small plant. The fact that there are electric are furnaces being erected at Ravenscraig, and there is the enhancement at Hallside indicate that the BSC is not putting all its eggs—in Scotland, at any rate—in one large basket.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, will the noble Lord say how many steel workers in Scotland will be redundant and whether the retraining facilities available there or elsewhere can cope with these men in the near future? Perhaps he might also care to indicate what areas of expansion in Scotland he expects in that area which would take up the employment of these men.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, I indicated that there will be an expansion within the period under review of some 25 per cent. to 27 per cent., and that the net job loss will be 2,100 jobs. The retraining facilities there and the question of new factories new job opportunities, in other industries is one into which maximum effort must be made.
§ Lord LLOYD of KILGERRANMy Lords, may I echo the words of the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, when he said, referring to Shotton, that it will be a terrible thing to break into the productivity of this fine, efficient and cooperative community. May I ask whether or not he would agree, having regard to the conditions in North Wales, that to deal drastically with Shotton in the way that has perhaps been mentioned from time to time would be catastrophic 1696 to the employment conditions there; and that in regard to Shotton the social effects of modernisation must loom larger in North Wales perhaps than in other areas?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, the noble Lord should have given the remainder of the quotation. I went on to say "unless there are overriding considerations". The social considerations I have fully in mind. There would be 6,000 jobs lost out of a workforce of 37,000 in that travel-to-work area. That is something that one must take into account. The noble Lord will agree—and it has been put very forcefully from those Benches by Liberal spokesmen—that we must have regard for the national effort, for the Welsh effort and the United Kingdom effort; and the eventual solution must be one which increases the possibility of this country and of Wales getting the maximum share of the steel market.
§ Lord MACKIE of BENSHIEMy Lords, might the noble Lord perhaps answer the point I made about whether he is satisfied that there are sufficient retraining facilities in Scotland for the men out of work?
§ Lord BESWICKYes, my Lords, there is no question but that the retraining facilities will be there. Unfortunately, in certain cases within my experience there has been some difficulty in filling the retraining posts; but the facilities will be there. The greater task will be to get jobs for the trained men to go to.
§ Lord ROBBINSMy Lords, now that he has nearly accomplished this tremendous task, is the noble Lord in the position to make any estimate of the comparative productivity per head in the whole area of the Steel Corporation's operation in relation to productivity per head in the leading competitors in the rest of the world?
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, I could give figures but I have not got them with me. I suspect that the noble Lord has certain figures in his head already. They do not compare very favourably as of now. There is no doubt about that. One outcome of this review must be that we do increase productivity per head. So far as Scotland is concerned, there 1697 will be more steel produced with fewer men. There is no doubt about that. If the noble Lord wants the figures I will send them on to him.
§ Lord ROBBINSMy Lords, I am greatly obliged to the noble Lord. I had no arrière pensée.
§ Lord BESWICKMy Lords, possibly the noble Lord might have read the Financial Times.
§ Lord AVEBURYMy Lords, why so late in the day has it been decided by the British Steel Corporation to produce threaded pipe for oil well casing? Is this not something which should have been considered many years ago so that we should be producing that casing for use in the North Sea now?
Lord. BESWTCKMy Lords, with hindsight many other decisions might have been taken some years ago. I am talking now about an increase in production.