PARIS ENERGY TALKS (Hansard, 22 April 1975)

§ Lord BALNIEL
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, the meeting arranged by the President of France to prepare for a conference on energy and related subjects adjourned in Paris on 16th April. Despite several days of friendly discussions, it proved impracticable to devise arrangements satisfactory to all the parties concerned. However, a start has been made on the dialogue which we have long been seeking, and we hope that this can continue. We attach great importance to maintaining close contact with the oil-producing States, and with the other consumer countries, with a view to seeking solutions to current problems in energy and related fields. We stand ready to resume discussions at any time and in any manner which is found mutually convenient.

§ Lord BALNIEL
My Lords, while there is no point in attributing blame to anyone for the failure of these talks, would not the noble Lord agree that for the consumers, producers and the developing countries, absolutely nothing has been gained from the talks so far? While it seems sensible that the talks should be confined to energy and energy-related subjects, may I ask the noble Lord whether the Community or the other industrial Powers are seeking new initiatives or new meeting places to try to make long-term arrangements for the other 764 raw materials, which would be helpful for the other developing countries?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I cannot agree that the conference was entirely fruitless. A good deal of useful work was done and, as the noble Lord knows, it was a preliminary meeting. The will for a discussion remains and this was the start of the process. As to the resumption of these discussions, I see that on 28th and 29th April the International Energy Agency will be discussing the prospects. A stocktaking and review is obviously needed, and no doubt the Agency will be helpful, together with this country and other countries, in re-viewing the position at the end of this conference and, perhaps, making suggestions as to resumption.

§ Lord WYNNE-JONES
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, at the recent meeting of Ministers of the EEC in Dublin, it was decided by the Ministers of the Federal Republic of Germany and the Republic of France to hold bilateral meetings on the subject of energy? Does my noble friend think that this is appropriate considering that they are both members of the EEC, that they are both member of the North Atlantic Assembly and that the International Energy Agency is supposed to be involved in these matters? Can he say whether Her Majesty's Government have been consulted at all on this matter by either Germany or France?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, both the French and the Germans are, no doubt, in close touch on many subjects, including energy, as we are with France and Germany. I hope that useful bilateral co-operation of this kind can continue compatible, of course, with group activity such as we experienced in the Paris talks to which the noble Lord referred, where the EEC countries, including France and Germany, joined with us, the United States and Japan in putting forward what we regarded as the right kind of agenda for those talks.

§ Lord WYNNE-JONES
My Lords, does my noble friend mean that the EEC and the International Energy Agency are of no importance at all and that everything is to be left to bilateral agreements? Can my noble friend say 765 whether, if this is the case, there is any point in having an EEC or any kind of international agreement?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, of course, bilateral talks have continued, are continuing and will continue, side by side with international and multilateral talks such as in the EEC, the UN and, indeed, the International Energy Agency. I see no incompatibility between continued bilateral action by this country and others on matters of mutual concern simultaneous with international action in which, as I have indicated, these countries and others join with us. Therefore I do not quite see my noble friend's point. It would be very difficult to confine ourselves entirely to multilateral action, because a great deal of our diplomatic, economic and other action is bilateral, and will continue to be so.

§ Lord SHINWELL
My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that it is possible, if not probable, that the result of bilateral discussions may, at some stage, be in conflict with the EEC or international discussions?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, of course it is possible, and it is the duty of us all to ensure that bilateral action is wherever possible compatible with agreed international action. Incompatibility is possible and we seek to avoid it.

§ Lord MERRIVALE
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware of the deadlock on the question of the discussions on energy? Can the Minister say whether, in effect, there are any prospects of continuing discussions on a matter which is close to the hearts of the developing countries; that is, the discussions on the question of raw materials, because they brought in that aspect? I wonder whether energy has been by-passed, and whether raw materials could be discussed.

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
Yes, my Lords, of course we are entirely in favour of a proper discussion of non-oil raw materials. Our primary emphasis for the purposes of this conference, as we saw it—and in this we were joined by the other members of the EEC, working as a group in the conference, by the United States and Japan—was on energy, but without prejudice to discussing other 766 non-oil raw materials. Indeed, there are for a in which non-oil raw materials are now being discussed and will increasingly be discussed in future, including the United Nations, the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference, and the forth-coming Special Session of the United Nations on raw materials.

§ Lord BLYTON
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in England in the energy field we have more coal than has Europe put together? Is he aware that we have oil to come from the North Sea up to the 1980s? Can he assure us that, in all the discussions which are taking place abroad, British coal and oil will be protected under the Treaty of Paris?

§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTS
Yes, my Lords.