HL Deb 21 November 1974 vol 354 cc1113-6
LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government to report on the conclusions of the Law of the Sea Conference held at Caracas in August and particularly on the United Kingdom proposals on the functions of the proposed International Seabed Authority.

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS)

My Lords, the second session of the Conference made important progress towards a new convention, and we are hopeful of a successful outcome of the next session in Geneva in March, 1975. No final conclu- sions were reached in Caracas on our proposals on the proposed International Seabed Authority and on other issues, and these are being reviewed.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. May I ask him whether he is not a little too optimistic about the outcome of this Conference? Is it not a fact that no tangible results were gained, and that there was a very disturbing conflict between the views of the developed and developing nations? Is there not a great danger that the seabed may now be occupied by competitive multi-national companies, and is there not a great deal to be said from a Socialist point of view for the attitude of the developing nations, who asked that the International Seabed Authority should participate in any exploitation of the minerals under the sea?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, certainly my noble friend eloquently describes the difficulties and dangers of this and any other international conference. However, at Caracas a definite momentum towards agreement in favour of a new convention was accomplished. Secondly, a good deal of work was done to prepare for the next, and probably vital, session which it has been decided to hold on March 17 in Geneva.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree, without assenting to some of the overtones of the supplementary question asked by the noble Lord on the other side of the House, that this subject is worthy of a more precise Answer than phrases like, "important progress" and, "No final conclusions were reached"? Could not the noble Lord go a little further and indicate the British Government's attitude, particularly in view of the critical problems which are already raising their heads between ourselves and France, Norway, Denmark, Iceland and Ireland?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

Yes, certainly, my Lords. We have set out our objective as: to ensure that all countries, and perhaps especially developing countries, gain early access to the benefits of the resources of the international seabed area. And since the conclusion of the first phase of this Conference on August 29 we have been very actively engaged in consultations with a wide range of countries, including those which the noble Earl has mentioned.

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that at the meeting of the North Atlantic Assembly which was held in London last week a resolution was passed on the issue of the control and exploitation of the seabed? So will my noble friend agree that the Government should pay particular attention to the request which will come from the North Atlantic Assembly, that really urgent consideration should be given to the authority of the international body to control the seabed?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, that resolution, in its essence, is entirely in conformity with the views of Her Majesty's Government; and, I should imagine, of their predecessors, too. We are certainly in favour of an effective international authority. However, there are differences about the scope of its powers and the method of its proceeding. These are for negotiation between now and the opening of the second phase of the Conference in March. The resolution to which my noble friend has referred indeed indicates in most of its particulars the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

LORD AVEBURY

My Lords, would the noble Lord agree that in the four years which have elapsed since the United Nations General Assembly first passed a resolution on this subject the technology of exploiting the seabed has advanced considerably; that a number of companies, including that of Mr. Howard Hughes, are at the present time engaged in measures to extract minerals from the seabed, and that it will be extremely hard for an international authority, if one is ultimately set up, to rescind any rights which such companies have acquired de facto?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

It may be hard, my Lords, but it should not be impossible. This is one of the important matters which the first session of the conference deputed to a special Working Party working on the existing situation, especially as it is developing, and also of course having regard to the 1958 Convention.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend this question? Was not the vital question of fishing in territorial waters debated at Caracas; why was the subject deferred, and what prospect is there of British interests being safeguarded?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, it was indeed discussed in Caracas, and we have every hope that an effective and acceptable agreement upon fishing limits and fishing rights will be achieved. There is forming up an effective consensus on this point.

BARONESS WHITE

My Lords, would my noble friend suggest to the Leader of the House that, as there is widespread interest in this subject, it might be helpful to many of us in this House to have a debate before the Conference resumes in March?

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHEPHERD)

My Lords, may I respond, so that we may move to another Question? I will take note of what my noble friend has said, and will have a word with the Chief Whip to see whether a debate can be arranged.