HL Deb 20 May 1974 vol 351 cc1235-7

2.40 p.m.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they agree with the statement made by M. Spaak the Director of Energy of the E.E.C. that the products of North Sea oil, when available, will be regarded as the property of the E.E.C. and not of Britain; and whether it is intended to publish the result of talks between officials representing the United Kingdom and the E.E.C. on this subject.

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, M. Spaak did not say that North Sea oil or its products would be the property of the E.E.C. The President and senior members of the Commission have on a number of occasions affirmed that the United Kingdom has sovereignty over the petroleum reserves in the United Kingdom sector of the Continental Shelf. The question of our sovereignty over North Sea oil has not formed part of the current discussions on Community energy policy.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether it is possible either to insert in the OFFICIAL REPORT or perhaps place in the Library a report of the discussions between the officials of Her Majesty's Government and the representatives of France, so that we know what is going on? Would not he agree that we are entitled to know what is going on? As regards M. Spaak's statement, despite what my noble friend has said, is he aware that I gained the information from the official reports which emanate from France itself? Therefore, it appears that M. Spaak said, or certainly implied, that Britain was not going to have a monopoly over North Sea oil and France was going to save a say in the matter.

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, on the first point raised by my noble friend, I have no doubt at all that full information will be made available to Parliament and to the public as to the outcome of any discussions on future energy policy in Europe, or as a result of the Washington Conference, which we supported very strongly, in relation to our own country. On the second point, I have studied M. Spaak's speech very carefully, as the noble Lord raised an important question. I do not find in it any references to sovereignty over our North Sea oil resources being subsumed in any sovereignty taken up by the E.E.C.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, I did not suggest that. I implied that M. Spaak claimed sovereignty or denied complete British sovereignty in this area. There is no doubt about what he said, which was that France is going to have a say in the matter, and that North Sea oil will not be the monopoly of the British Government.

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

I am sorry, my Lords, but my noble friend's Question suggested that M. Spaak's speech referred to our North Sea oil being regarded as the property of the E.E.C. I agree that in this case there is a distinction between sovereignty and ownership. On the second point, no doubt France and a great many other countries will have suggestions to make about the disposal of British assets.

LORD WIGG

My Lords, is my noble friend drawing the wrong conclusion? The point at issue is not the difference between ownership and proprietorship, but the difference between ownership and sovereignty. Therefore, will my noble friend be good enough to say, on behalf of Her Majesty's Government, that there is no doubt whatever that North Sea oil is the exclusive property of the British people, and that it will be developed for their benefit?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I have absolutely no reservation on this point. It was stressed by the Opposition when in power, and I believe that last January the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, used words very similar to mine. North Sea oil and gas are the property of this country and their disposal will be for this country and this Government to decide.

LORD WIGG

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that what the Opposition had to say has nothing to do with it? What is at issue is what Her Majesty's Government say. If my noble friend is certain about where Her Majesty's Government stand on this issue, will he be good enough to direct M. Spaak's attention to what is the undoubted policy of Her Majesty's Government?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I thought I had made it absolutely clear that the attitude of Her Majesty's Government is that we regard the oil as being the property of this country. I thought it was nice to adduce a certain degree of continuity in policy for a change.