§ 3.6 p.m.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what conclusions were reached at the meeting of the E.E.C. Council of Development Ministers regarding aid to developing nations; and what proposals were submitted on behalf of her Majesty's Government.
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, at the recent meeting of E.E.C. Development Ministers, Her Majesty's Government urged the Community to adopt more balanced aid policies to benefit not only associates but developing countries throughout the world, especially the poorest. My right honourable friend the Minister of Overseas Development invited the Commission to prepare an overall Community aid "framework" for the next five years. Her proposals were very well received and there is to be a further meeting next month. I have arranged for my right honourable friend's speech to be placed in the Library.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, while sincerely welcoming that statement, may I ask the Minister whether at this meeting the 0.7 per cent. target for aid was accepted, while the previous Government were uncommitted to it? In relation to that target, would she consider that, if it is to be extended over this wider area, it might be very thin; and, therefore, might not it be an advantage to exclude private profitable investments from the scope of aid?
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, in answer to the first of my noble friend's three ques- 1014 tions, yes, indeed, my right honourable friend did say that in principle the British Government now accepted the 0.7 per cent. target. Undoubtedly, as my noble friend says, this removes many obstacles to changing the aspect of Community aid. As for his second question, I have forgotten it!
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I was not aware that there were three questions, but the second question which I put—
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, I have it now. My noble friend asked me whether this would not spread the aid too thinly. I do not think that this is the case because if the Commission decide as we hope they will, it means that aid will go to those countries which need it most, rather than be distributed to countries which need it much less. Therefore, the aid will go round much better. I would rather leave his third question, as there is to be a meeting in another two weeks and I do not want to prejudice the discussions there.
§ LORD WADEMy Lords, on a general point, would the noble Baroness agree that the E.E.C. countries, acting together, are in a position to achieve more in the way of aid than if each Member country acts independently?
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEYes, indeed, my Lords; and I can confirm that this is the present intention of Her Majesty's Government's policy.
§ BARONESS GAITSKELLMy Lords, may I ask the Chief Whip whether there is any reason why we should exclude from Government aid private investment and private trade with the developing countries?
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOENo, indeed, my Lords. This has never been done. I did not want to express any controversial views while the matters were being discussed in the Commission but I do not think it has been the intention of any Administration in recent years to do that.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, since the next French President might be opposed to us in our negotiations on entry into the Common Market, does it not seem 1015 that following our referendum this Question will be of no significance, in that we might come out?
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, I think the question of renegotiation is another matter, and so is the question of who is to be the next French President.
§ LORD LLOYD OF KILGERRANMy Lords, in the course of her most helpful reply the noble Baroness used the phrase—
§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHEPHERD)My Lords, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Barnby, was trying to rise to intervene.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Leader for his generosity. The original Question dealt with aid and the Minister indicated that real location is taking place. Are we to understand therefore, in view of the massive change of relationship between the producing and consuming countries because of the change in values, and also since a paper like the Financial Times yesterday, in discussing the rich and poor people, placed England, Italy and Denmark within the poor country column, the effect of this on our balance of payments and the high cost of importing from the producing countries, that the £260 million—a massive sum—handed out by the poor countries to the developing countries last year is likely to receive its appropriate comprehensive review?
BARONESS LLEWELYN DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, I did not expect the noble Lord, Lord Barnby, to start by saying that he thanked me for my helpful statement, as the noble Lord, Lord Lloyd did, but I can reassure him that nothing which has been planned under the proposals of my right honourable friend with the Community will cost us any extra. It is all within the overall aid programme which Her Majesty's Government have already decided upon.
§ LORD LLOYD OF KILGERRANMy Lords, may I repeat sincerely how very grateful I am for the very helpful first reply which the noble Baroness made to the Question. However, in the course of her Answer, she used the phrase, "more 1016 balanced policies to be introduced by the Government." I wonder whether, within the ambit of the time available at Question Time or on some other occasion in writing, she would care to let the House know briefly what is meant by "balanced policies" and therefore by "more balanced policies"?
BARONESS LLEWELYN DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, I can answer very quickly. These were not balanced or more balanced policies by the Government; but more balanced policies—aid policies—by the Community. By that, we mean not confined to the associates, but spread over the developing countries throughout the world, especially the poorest. That is "more balanced".
§ LORD LLOYD OF KILGERRANMy Lords, I assume that the Government do support a balanced policy and a more balanced policy in regard to the City at the moment?
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the Government proposal will help the poorest countries in the world—India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Ceylon—and if that is the motive for the Government's action?