§ 11.8 a.m.
§ LORD KILMANYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what saving of time is expected from the addition of letters, for instance the letters B5HH to mail addressed to London W.C.1; and whether experience has shown that such a saving of time has, in practice, been achieved.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I understand from the Post Office that postcodes have been introduced so that letters can be sorted more quickly by automatic machines. The overall transmission times of individual letters are largely dependent on other factors and are not in general altered.
§ LORD KILMANYMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, will he agree that it does not provide complete evidence for which I asked? Is he aware that these extra letters and numerals seem to have no rhyme or reason behind them, and that it is almost impossible for one to remember them 1721 unless one happens to have the address in front of one on a desk? Would it not be much better to concentrate on getting a decent service with the use of the old numerals and letters, such as W.1 and S.W.1, which mean something and which we all understand?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I quite understand that the noble Lord has some difficulty with these combinations of letters, as I have. I gather that it took twenty to thirty years before our forebears were able to assimilate the London postal code, to which he referred, which now seems so simple.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, can the noble Lord say how many centres there are in the country which can make use of these machines?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, there are 12 large sorting offices which now have the automatic machines which can utilise the postal code.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, of all the letters posted in any one day, week or month, what percentage really make use of these hieroglyphics?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I am not quite sure what the noble Lord means by that question. I have said that there are twelve large offices which now have the automatic machines and which can utilise to the full the benefits of the postal code.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEBut, my Lords, my question was very simple. Do they make use of it?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, my understanding is that they are becoming increasingly used in those areas where it is known that they are equipped to benefit from them. I am told that in Norwich, for example, which was the first area to have a postal code, something in excess of 60 per cent. of the postal traffic uses these codes.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, knowing the interest that the Minister takes in this matter, and as the postal service is now the responsibility of his Ministry, may I ask two brief supplementary questions? Has it ever been considered that the delivery of letters has deteriorated since we had a two-tier 1722 system; and is it ever likely that we might look into the possibility of returning to a one-tier system? Secondly, not knowing whether or not my noble friend lives in W.1, may I ask whether he can say anything for the benefit of those people who do? Is he aware of the present position in regard to the delivery of letters, my own this morning having been eight days in the post in the W.1 area, although they were for first-class delivery? It is impossible to do one's work and, even appreciating the difficulties, are we really to pay 4½p for an eight-day delivery?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I have now forgotten what the first question was, but I am sure it was not related to the Question on the Order Paper. To the extent that there has been a deterioration in the postal service, it is due to the fact that this is a labour intensive service and we are not paying enough money to get the sort of numbers into the service that are needed. The automatic machines have to some extent offset the deterioration which would otherwise have taken place.
§ BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEYMy Lords, may I ask the Minister what happens with these machines if the codes are not written distinctly? Does the letter then go astray, or can the machine deal with bad handwriting?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I have no reason to believe that the machines are not as good at dealing with bad handwriting as the ordinary human sorting agency. If an address is not clearly written, it is liable to delay.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, can the noble Lord give us an assurance that the Post Office have no intention of penalising in any way the users of the postal service who for various reasons do not use these particular hieroglyphics?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, there is no deliberate intention at all. The noble Lord, Lord Kilmany, asked the meaning of a particular group of letters. As he has probably noticed, it is the code which applies to the Horserace Betting Levy Board, of which he is a member. The fact of the matter is that there have been no protests at all about the service they are getting.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware of the fact that great confusion is caused because the letter "I" and the figure "1" also appear in these numerals, and it is very difficult to distinguish between them, both in handwriting and, in many cases, in typewriting?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, that is the sort of common sense and constructive comment that I would expect my noble friend Lord Leatherland to bring forward, and I will see that it is considered.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, since this question was recently raised in the House, is the noble Lord able to make any comment on the inconvenience and loss that is being caused to all users of the post by, for instance, the delay between the City and the West One area? Further, is he able to suggest any greater speed than 10 days in the West One area for letters bearing these various hieroglyphics about which the noble Lord asked?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, the West One problem is a separate one about which I answered a Question earlier in the week. Now that settlement has been reached, I hope that the backlog of letters will be cleared and that the services will be improved. Wearing another hat, I wonder whether I might suggest to your Lordships that this would be a suitable moment to turn to the next Question.