§ 4.9 p.m.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, with permission I should like to repeat a Statement which has been made by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Employment in another place. These are his words:
"I will with permission, Mr. Speaker, make a Statement about the Flixborough inquiry.
"I said in my Statement on June 3 that I would set up a Public Inquiry which would deal with all the issues raised by the Flixborough disaster. I have come to the conclusion that this could best be done in the following way.
"First, I shall set up an inquiry under the Factories Act to establish the causes and circumstances of the disaster; and shall ask for advice about any immediate lessons which we can learn from what happened.
"I have asked Mr. Parker, Q.C., to serve as Chairman and Dr. Pope, Vice-Chancellor of Aston University, to be Deputy Chairman. The following people have agreed to serve as Members:
Dr. Davidson, Reader in Chemical Engineering, Cambridge University.
Mr. Bill Simpson, Head of the Foundries Section of the A.U.E.W.
I shall ask this Court of Inquiry to report as quickly as it can, consistent with a full examination of what occurred at Flixborough.
"The work on site in connection with the investigation which was instituted by the Factory Inspectorate immediately following the explosion is now virtually completed though metallurgical and chemical investigations are continuing and will take some time to complete. The information and evidence so far gathered will now be given to the members of the Inquiry. The investigation team (and all the resources of the Inspectorate) will be available to make such further inquiries as the members of the Inquiry think desirable.
"Secondly, this disaster has naturally raised public concern about the 1657 risk of similar disasters at other plants of this kind. The whole matter will have to be taken up as soon as possible by the Health and Safety Commission to be set up shortly under the legislation which we are presently considering. This was specifically recommended by the Robens Committee.
"However, in order that an immediate start can be made on the examination of these problems. I have after consulation with those of my colleagues who have an interest in these matters decided to set up an expert committee to begin work on the nature of the hazards presented by these large-scale plants and on the ways in which people who work in them, or live near them, can be safeguarded and reassured. I shall ask the committee to report in due course to the Health and Safety Commission so that Ministers can be advised on what further steps need to be taken, including the licensing of plants which present particular hazards.
"The expert committee will later this year have the full resources of the Health and Safety Executive to be established under the new legislation to help them with their work. But I do not intend to wait upon the new legislation. I am establishing immediately within my Department an organisation specifically concerned with these major hazards; and the Home Secretary has agreed with me that we should at a very early date bring together within this organisation the Explosives Inspectorate and people from my own Factory Inspectorate This will ensure a unified organisation to deal with these problems."
My Lords, that completes the Statement.
§ 4.13 p.m.
THE EARL OF GOWRIEMy Lords, from these Benches I should like to thank the noble Lord for repeating that Statement, which is of course so highly apposite to our debate that I do not think it is necessary for me to comment in any detail upon it. I did indeed mention Flixborough in my speech a few minutes ago. I would ask the noble Lord two things, and if he cannot answer now I should be very happy and very grateful if he would write to me. No one will 1658 of course condemn the Secretary of State for not waiting for the legislation we are discussing this afternoon or for acting in haste on this issue, but will not the organisation that he is proposing to set up within his own Department to some degree pre-empt the work of the Health and Safety Executive? I mean the major centre of initiative for work in this field which the noble Lord, Lord Hughes, referred to earlier. Or will, perhaps, the personnel be the same? Secondly, my Lords, I should be very grateful if the noble Lord could tell us what is the present situation as to fatalities. I tried to get a list earlier, before this debate, of the number of people killed and injured, but I found it hard to do so.
§ LORD AVEBURYMy Lords, we are also very grateful to the noble Lord for repeating the Statement made in another place. In view of what he said about the necessity for full disclosure of information under the legislation we have just been discussing, may I ask him whether he does not consider that the information and evidence which has so far been gathered, and which he says is now being made available to the members of the Inquiry, should also be given to the Chemical Industries Association and the trade unions concerned, so that if there are any preliminary lessons to be learned from it in relation to other plants they can be acted on immediately? Secondly, may I ask him what will be the relationship between the Committee of Inquiry into Flixborough itself and the other expert committee which is to begin work on the nature of hazards presented by large-scale plants as a whole? Is it not important that there should be the closest possible relationship between these two bodies?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for the way in which they have responded to this Statement. The first question asked by the noble Earl, Lord Gowrie, was about whether or not the special organisation being set up would or would not pre-empt the work of the new body. My Lords, it will not. In fact, it will be part of the organisation which will be taken over by the new body when it comes into existence. I am sorry that I do not have the information for which the noble Earl asked, about the number of people killed 1659 and the number who were injured, but I will certainly react to his suggestion that the information should be conveyed to him in writing at the earliest opportunity.
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for the suggestions which he has made. As noble Lords appreciate, the number of Ministers in this House does not always ensure that these matters are dealt with by people who are departmentally knowledgeable. Therefore, the best I can undertake to do is to pass on to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State what I think are useful suggestions, in which I am certain he will be interested.