§ 3.8 p.m.
THE EARL OF ARRANMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied that the Badgers Act 1973 is being enforced.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD HARRIS OF GREENWICH)My Lords, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has no reason to suppose that the Act is not being enforced.
THE EARL OF ARRANMy Lords, while I am grateful for that Answer, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government are aware that on May 9 a demonstration of so-called humane killing of badgers by snaring took place at Stroud in Gloucestershire, sponsored by the Ministry of Agriculture, with the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in attendance? Is the Minister further aware that this was a direct infringement of Section 2(a) of the Badgers Act 1973 which forbids cruel ill-treatment of badgers?
§ LORD HARRIS OF GREENWICHMy Lords, the Gloucestershire police have received a complaint alleging cruelty at this demonstration. This is at present under investigation; in those circumstances it is not appropriate for me to make comment.
§ LORD KILMANYMy Lords, arising out of that reply, is the noble Lord aware that according to the Press, the Department of the Environment are to spend 615 £10,000 in digging a subway to allow badgers to cross underneath the A3 road in Surrey? Is the noble Lord confident that the badgers will in fact make full use of this subway?—because someone who knows quite a lot about badgers told me that it is very likely the badgers will suspect that the subway is a trap, and will not go near it.
§ LORD HARRIS OF GREENWICHMy Lords, I think this demonstrates that the Government are perfectly prepared to take a reasonable attitude towards the badger. I hope that what the noble Lord, Lord Kilmany, has said, will at least reassure the noble Earl, Lord Arran, who put this Question on the Order Paper.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, I am sure that the Minister will correct me if I am wrong, but if the complaint has been received by the police and the matter is not yet before the courts it is not yet sub judice. Can the Minister tell the House whether any prosecution is at present in train, or contemplated?
§ LORD HARRIS OF GREENWICHNo, my Lords. I think the position is that a complaint has been received, and the police are investigating it. In those circumstances, I do not think it would be appropriate for me to make any comment.
§ LORD FOOTMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether it is a fact that the long-standing definition of cruelty to an animal is "wilfully causing pain to an animal without justification"? Does the Minister or do the Government know of any way in which one can catch a badger in a wire snare without causing pain to the badger? If the Minister does not know of any way in which that can be done, what justification can there be for the Ministry of Agriculture taking part in the snaring of badgers?
§ LORD HARRIS OF GREENWICHMy Lords, I fear that the noble Lord, Lord Foot, is trying to get me to make a comment on the circumstances of this particular demonstration. As I have already indicated, I do not think that would be appropriate.
§ LORD CAMOYSMy Lords, are we going to allow civil servants to overrule the Common Law?
§ LORD HARRIS OF GREENWICHMy Lords, I am sure no member of the public service would in fact defy the law.